Rockies/NYY trade

[chrisetc21]

Chris,

I get that you have a little power or say here and that is all fine and dandy but from fantrax is where I got that number. Andrus was the 12th ranked mi for the last 2 years. Verified 

I'm not sure how many games Hanigan missed so yeah Golem may have the most points but that is a moot point really.  Hanigans missed time and Corky Miller. Really? 

I stand by my statements as well.

We all have the same say and power here, everyone can make up their own mind but you can't have your own facts.

This is what you said in your own words.  You said it twice. 

And Andrus was the 12th best ss in 12 and 13.

Andrus wound up being the 12 ranked ss in 12 and 13.

And it's not true.  Verified not true.

You also said this.

Mesoraco has never been a starting catcher either Chris.

Again, verified not true. 

[limeygreen]

To (mis)quote Twain this is very much a case of "lies, dam lies and statistics!!"

As noted before Andrus was rated 12th last season, albeit in PGG,- though overall points moves him to 7th (which however may well have been lower (10th) had not Ramirez, Reys and Cabrera all had shortened regular seasons). Either way he is currently not a top 5 SS …. In respect of Mesoraco - he would have been a helpful asset, however as noted before I have other options (Jason Castro, who outscored him in both total points and PPG in 2013) and his value for the 2014 season is surely dented by the Reds signing of Pena?

Hope this helps the debate (naturally I would argue that this is a fair deal and I think the numbers help back that up).

At some point I may well post something on the main board on the issue of trades/vetoes - I really think we need a discussion around what is a fair and rigorous process. My (limited) experience so far indicates that trades are thrown out for no other reason than other owners subjective views on what players are/should be, which to me does sometime differ from reality/fails to take into account what roster issues etc the trading clubs are seeking to address.. just a thought

[DarylH]

Mesoraco has never earned the full time catchers gig. He started due to injuries. And sorry is misspoke about Andrus ranking. I was looking at MI because of extensions. I had never looked up where he ranked on the ss list.

[limeygreen]

To (mis)quote Twain this is very much a case of "lies, dam lies and statistics!!"

As noted before Andrus was rated 12th last season, albeit in PGG,- though overall points moves him to 5th (which however may well have been lower (8th) had not Ramirez, Reys and Cabrera all had shortened regular seasons). Either way it comes with a question of whether he is a top 5 SS …. In respect of Mesoraco - he would have been a helpful asset, however as noted before I have other options (Jason Castro, who outscored him in both total points and PPG in 2013) and his value for the 2014 season is surely dented by the Reds signing of Pena?

Hope this helps the debate (naturally I would argue that this is a fair deal and I think the numbers help back that up).

At some point I may well post something on the main board on the issue of trades/vetoes - I really think we need a discussion around what is a fair and rigorous process. My (limited) experience so far indicates that trades are thrown out for no other reason than other owners subjective views on what players are/should be, which to me does sometime differ from reality/fails to take into account what roster issues etc the trading clubs are seeking to address.. just a thought

[yahoolando]

I am going to veto this deal as well.

 :veto:

Not sure who/where some get numbers but based on SS rankings for 2012 and 2013 Andrus ranks 7th in total points.  15th in both past years for MI.

With 30 starting SS and MI that puts him pretty high on the ability list with both consistency and value.  Furthermore if we go back to 2011 he is again 15th at MI and 9th at SS.

You can analyze it anyway you want but you will get more for Andrus.  This doesn't even include Mesoraco who may very we'll be the starter although that can be debated.

What can't be debated is Andrus value for consistency in the past 3 years.  Not trying to hold him ransom or anything but we need to see a higher pick needing to move for a player of this calibre.

[seanrmgallagher]

Looking at this trade, I believe that the Yankees are clear winners. I would suggest that the Rockies look to the success of past draft picks in those slots and prospects and how often they end up being successful major leaguers. The return is pretty weak from a prospect perspective as well, but to me its not vetoable. The Yankees are getting only 1 year of Andrus before his salary greatly inflates and Mesoraco is just not a good hitting catcher. Close enough of a trade that I am okay with it. So,  :iatp:.

[pats1fan]

While, I myself would not make this trade, I will not veto this time around.  There is no collusion, just one team that's in a tight spot with the salary cap and another team in the right place at the right time to take advantage of the situation.  I reluctantly approve this deal.

[haseloff]

:iatp:

We can't forge all trades for every team.  If both teams feel their teams are getting better, approve.  You should get higher draft picks but you don't need me telling you what trades to accept/decline.  Plus I don't know how many people you've tried to trade with, this might be the best trade request you've received. 

If you still have catchers with playing time lying around, come over to the :NYM: clubhouse.  We could definitely bribe you with some good scotch and take one off your hands. 

[Fitzy1962]

I'd just like to know when chrisetc21  is ever going to NOT veto a trade which he isn't involved in?

 :iatp:

[chrisetc21]

I'd just like to know when chrisetc21  is ever going to NOT veto a trade which he isn't involved in?

 :iatp:

I'd like to know when you're going to stop whining like a child but I'd like to help you out Fitzy so here are 17 trades in the last two months that passed without a veto.   

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=121991.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=122082.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=122090.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=121192.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=120934.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=119468.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=119763.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=117937.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=116755.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=116244.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=116327.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=115889.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114852.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114815.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114539.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114040.0

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114223.0