Need help understanding pitching scoring

[Canada8999]

If we are looking at revamping the scoring system, here is another variation of the defensive & luck independent research: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/index.php/pitching/tera/

[h4cheng]

Liriano + No hitter = 15 points, ouch!

[Mr.TradeKing]

No, no. It was his defense that deserves all the points.  :rofl:

Seriously, this is just another a example. Yes, I know he had 7 BB's, but c'mon the man pitched a no hitter and only got 15 points. If this doesn't do it, then I do not know what will.

~MTK

[VolsRaysBucs]

No, no. It was his defense that deserves all the points.  :rofl:

Seriously, this is just another a example. Yes, I know he had 7 BB's, but c'mon the man pitched a no hitter and only got 15 points. If this doesn't do it, then I do not know what will.

~MTK

Meanwhile, Jesse Crain goes 1.1 innings and scores 30.  Did the Sox hit a ball hard all night?  Honest question, didn't see the game.

[Dan Wood]

I don't care how many hits he gave up, he hardly struck anyone out, walked the ball park, and was wild as a rabid dog. His no-hitter is purely luck. He had a similar start last week, but he gave up something like 20 hits. Even Mark Beurhle's perfect game was luck driven, he shouldn't have even had a shut-out. Jon Lester had a far superior start last night.

[Dan Wood]

"he walked six and struck out just two. Truth be told, he wasn't really dominating, like you envision for a no-hitter. Of the 21 nine-inning no-hitters since 2000 (including Roy Halladay's postseason no-no), Liriano's was the least impressive. Using the Bill James Game Score method, he scored an 83, lower than the 85 that Edwin Jackson scored last year (when he walked eight and fanned six) and A.J. Burnett's 85 in 2001 (nine walks, seven strikeouts). The last pitcher to throw a nine-inning no-hitter with just two strikeouts was the Dodgers' Jerry Reuss, in 1980. The last pitcher to throw a nine-inning no-hitter with a Game Score of 83 was Cliff "Lefty" Chambers, of the 1951 Pirates (he walked eight and struck out four). "

http://espn.go.com/blog/SweetSpot/post/_/id/10066/it-wasnt-pretty-but-liriano-throws-a-no-no

[Needle Juice]

"he walked six and struck out just two. Truth be told, he wasn't really dominating, like you envision for a no-hitter. Of the 21 nine-inning no-hitters since 2000 (including Roy Halladay's postseason no-no), Liriano's was the least impressive. Using the Bill James Game Score method, he scored an 83, lower than the 85 that Edwin Jackson scored last year (when he walked eight and fanned six) and A.J. Burnett's 85 in 2001 (nine walks, seven strikeouts). The last pitcher to throw a nine-inning no-hitter with just two strikeouts was the Dodgers' Jerry Reuss, in 1980. The last pitcher to throw a nine-inning no-hitter with a Game Score of 83 was Cliff "Lefty" Chambers, of the 1951 Pirates (he walked eight and struck out four). "

http://espn.go.com/blog/SweetSpot/post/_/id/10066/it-wasnt-pretty-but-liriano-throws-a-no-no

Good sign is that his fastball was back and missing low, but his score is reflective of the system we use.  I have no problem with it.  No hits, but 6 walks can easily lose a game as much as win it. 

I really believe that the conversations about rules, scoring, etc. need to be brought up during the offseason, they are only distractions at this point.  Quite frankly, we will still have to start at the beginning of this subject when discussed in the offseason. 

[Mr.TradeKing]

I still play baseball, and I have the question; "what isn't luck driven?" I go out there and give it all I got and let the pieces fall where they may. What causes the pieces to fall where they may? My answer is "luck." Things could easily go other ways, but they DIDN'T. I don't care how "lucky" you want to call Liri's no-no, because in my book everything has a "luck" factor. The man went out there and competed against a Major-League caliber lineup who has proven hitters. I think it was a little more than just "luck." He kept his fastball low all night (unlike the rest of the season) and when he missed, he missed down and away, textbook. We need to start giving some points to what ACTUALLY happened instead of all of these different scenarios of what could have happened and because of who. The fact of the matter is, this man went out for 9 IP and didn't allow a hit to a lineup that was considered one of the tops in baseball at the beginning of the season. If it what THAT easy to do, then there would be more than just 21 no-no's since 2001.

MY RANT,
~MTK

[Dan Wood]

I still play baseball, and I have the question; "what isn't luck driven?" I go out there and give it all I got and let the pieces fall where they may. What causes the pieces to fall where they may? My answer is "luck." Things could easily go other ways, but they DIDN'T. I don't care how "lucky" you want to call Liri's no-no, because in my book everything has a "luck" factor. The man went out there and competed against a Major-League caliber lineup who has proven hitters. I think it was a little more than just "luck." He kept his fastball low all night (unlike the rest of the season) and when he missed, he missed down and away, textbook. We need to start giving some points to what ACTUALLY happened instead of all of these different scenarios of what could have happened and because of who. The fact of the matter is, this man went out for 9 IP and didn't allow a hit to a lineup that was considered one of the tops in baseball at the beginning of the season. If it what THAT easy to do, then there would be more than just 21 no-no's since 2001.

MY RANT,
~MTK

So this is a field study that you conducted on your own then, and we can use this as actual research as to why we should change the scoring system? Has it been peer reviewed yet, or published anywhere?

[Mr.TradeKing]

No, it was correctly labeled as a rant. However, as I stated before, I will assist in research and in finding a solution on how to tweak the current system.

I have heard explanations such as "pitchers don't have control over the play after the ball leaves their hand." Erroneous. A decision is made along with release point (talent) that determines the location of a pitch that comes after the ball is released, but is determined when the ball is released. So, to say the pitcher no longer has control over the situation is not completely true. If this was the case, then there would be no such thing a FB and GB pitchers who get higher than average ratios of FB's and GB's respectively due to location and pitch selection. The location of the pitch affects everything from contact (and how hard) along with where and how the ball is hit.

I think sometimes "less is more" and I believe that we have gone too far in the direction of trying to "isolate" the pitcher which has resulted in some qwerky scoring. I think if we "open up" the scoring a little bit more, then we will see the points self-align themselves in what we would consider a "normal" trend based on proven talent.

~MTK