Need help understanding pitching scoring

[VolsRaysBucs]

I hope I don't come across as complaining, but I honestly need help understanding our pitching scoring (to better help evaluate pitchers).  Please tell me if I'm missing something here by comparing two SP lines for this week:

Jeff Neimann-  7.0 IP/ 2 H/ 1 R/ 1 ER/ 1 BB/ 2 K/ 0 HR/ 9 GB/ 40 fantasy points

David Price-   4.1 IP/ 12 H/ 5 R/ 5 ER/ 1 BB/ 4 K/ 1 HR/ 10 GB/ 46 fantasy points

I'm reading this as 2 extra K's and 1 more GB are enough to make up for 2 2/3 less IP, 10 more hits given up, 4 more ER given up and 1 more HR given up.  To the tune of 6 more points being scored for the FAR worse line.  I understand our vision as a league, but can't for the life of me understand how this scoring "better" evaluates pitcher performance.  I happened to watch both games, and their performances were as night-and-day as their lines.  There have been numerous other examples of this that I've personally witnessed this season alone (for other teams' players).  Even looking at this sabermetrically, I can't get it to make sense to me.....Help me to understand this fellas!    :toth:

[lp815]

To supplement Mike's frustration, points are also given for ground balls that DO NOT result in an out, also. So it doesn't matter if its a dribbler to the pitcher , or a groundball to the outfield for a double, its points for the pitcher. If it's a GB, its points, whether the hitter is out or not.

[h4cheng]

I agree the pitcher scoring is out of wack. Every week, a member of my pitching staff will get hammered and score a lot of points while another goes 8 innings and scores less points. I think the problem is that we don't penalize pitchers for line drives allowed (which often leads to hits) and we don't reward pitchers for popups allowed (which often leads to outs). Unforunately, neither is available on fantrax right now. A good interim solution might be to reward pitchers for outs recorded.

[Colby]

Jeff Neimann-  7.0 IP/ 2 H/ 1 R/ 1 ER/ 1 BB/ 2 K/ 0 HR/ 9 GB/ 40 fantasy points

David Price-   4.1 IP/ 12 H/ 5 R/ 5 ER/ 1 BB/ 4 K/ 1 HR/ 10 GB/ 46 fantasy points

Neimann had 9 GB, 2 K, 1 BB in 7 IP
Price had 10 GB, 4 K, 1 HR, 1 BB in 4.1 IP

Two more K's and one more GB shouldn't make up for 2.2 less IP and allowing a HR.  We all understand the point of the scoring system, but perhaps we need an upwards adjustment for IP.

[lp815]

If we had a good review of pitching by the end of this season, I think we could find a good formula that would bump pitchers (good ones, anyway) a bit for next season.

As much as I'd like to see changes now, next season should be where changes can be made. If we were to find a good formula by, say, June 1, all teams would have 2 months before the trade deadline to prepare for next season changes.

In my opinion, the most glaring weakness in our system is the allowance of GB hits counting as points.

[Colby]

In my opinion, the most glaring weakness in our system is the allowance of GB hits counting as points.

Hits are an issue of the defense behind a pitcher... so it's not quite independent.

[lp815]

Hits are an issue of the defense behind a pitcher... so it's not quite independent.

I can agree with you only up to a point....I mean, are GB hits allowed in any other league that you play in?  And if so, is the scoring, in your opinion, fairly representative?

[Mr.TradeKing]

I agree that this is a broken system. We seeing value's of pitchers fluctuate based on our system and not real life performance. This leads to contracts values being skewed, so we need to fix this ASAP, so we don't have average pitchers being paid more than the above average pitchers.

~MTK

[VolsRaysBucs]

In my perfect world, we'd be able to tweak the system so that real-life performance more closely correlates with points scored.  Using the before referenced lines for comparison, using the eyeball test, one would assume that Price scored in the negative and Neimann would have posted significantly higher points.  We have RP scoring higher points than starters while pitching to 4 batters compared to going 7 strong innings. 

I am torn between Jake's idea of waiting until the offseason and Aubrey's of doing something ASAP.  I can find merit and fault in both schools of thought.  I've not yet given enough thought to possible solutions, perhaps I should have before starting this topic.  It does appear there are enough people who agree that something is amiss and with the minds we have in this league, I'm confident the brainstorming will strengthen an already great league.

Mike B (Rays)

[lp815]

In my perfect world, we'd be able to tweak the system so that real-life performance more closely correlates with points scored.  Using the before referenced lines for comparison, using the eyeball test, one would assume that Price scored in the negative and Neimann would have posted significantly higher points.  We have RP scoring higher points than starters while pitching to 4 batters compared to going 7 strong innings. 

I am torn between Jake's idea of waiting until the offseason and Aubrey's of doing something ASAP.  I can find merit and fault in both schools of thought.  I've not yet given enough thought to possible solutions, perhaps I should have before starting this topic.  It does appear there are enough people who agree that something is amiss and with the minds we have in this league, I'm confident the brainstorming will strengthen an already great league.

Mike B (Rays)

I believe Colby was onto something about somehow giving points for outs (all outs), or points for pitching full innings, etc.  Are those allowable stats on fantrax?