Scoring for Pitchers

[Colby]

I understand that 10% of fly balls end up being HR's but that also depends on park/weather and the hitter. Some batters just don't have HR power and hit a handful each yr, but they may fly out a lot. In baseball, I was always taught to hit line drives and ground balls b/c it is harder for the defensive to record the out on a ground ball than a fly ball. All a defender has to do is catch a fly ball, however inorder to record the out on the ground ball, the defender must field it, make a good exchange, a good throw and the basemen must catch the ball. So by simple addition that is 4 opportunities for something to go wrong on a ground ball compared to 1 for a fly ball.

~MTK

Groundballs also increase the chance for the fielders to get an out on another player other than the batter.  This is why they are desirable for the pitcher and included in our scoring system.

[Mr.TradeKing]

Groundballs also increase the chance for the fielders to get an out on another player other than the batter.  This is why they are desirable for the pitcher and included in our scoring system.

If someone else is on base...

~MTK

[Colby]

If someone else is on base...

~MTK

Which we don't assume one way or another in our scoring system.

[rcankosy]

Using Bill James' Game Score formula(see below) for pitching, Tommy Hunter would have compiled 53 points last night, while Tim Wakefield would have only earned 16 points.  Please think about it guys.

Start with 50 points.
Add 1 point for each out recorded, so 3 points for every complete inning pitched.
Add 2 points for each inning completed after the 4th.
Add 1 point for each strikeout.
Subtract 2 points for each hit allowed.
Subtract 4 points for each earned run allowed.
Subtract 2 points for each unearned run allowed.
Subtract 1 point for each walk.   

[bravesfan4]

Well i know i am new to the league, so i dont have as much experience with this scoring system.  But here's my outlook,

As a pitcher you want ground balls. It would be nice to have points for pitchers who work late into games as a bonus, but generally speaking, if they work late into games, then there not walking batters and there getting outs, most of the time ground balls or k's. not to many fly ball pitchers are successful at working deep into games.

But with all that being said, the fact of the matter is, it would be flat out wrong to change the system. if you do it, it shouldnt take effect for a couple years. teams have signed players and traded for players, that fit THIS scoring system. by changing it you would effectively be screwing those teams over.

Thats just my opinion

[Colby]

That is why if a change happened then I could only support a tweak that incorporates line drives. 

[Canada8999]

Roy I hate to be blunt here, but you are arguing with commonly accepted facts.  Pitchers control K, BB, FB/GB and that's it - period.

The current scoring system was put in place based on the proven facts of what a pitcher can and cannot control, and many transactions have been made since then based on the scoring system.  There was a significantly long thread going back and forth before it was put in place to ensure that it was a good design, because it was understood that so much would depend on it moving forward.  Minor tweaks could be made, but I would even disagree with adding line drives to the formula - line drives are not controlled by the pitcher, they are a hitter controlled stat.

[rcankosy]

Brewers,

Forgive me for being blunt, but I do not accept that it is proven that the pitching theories you have suggested are commonly held facts.  Pitchers like Bob Gibson and Tom Seaver would scoff at those theories, because they held themselves accountable for everything that happened on the field whether it was cheap hits or errors.  Bill James did not eliminate earned runs or hits out of his pitching formulas.  Forgive me, but I trust James' formulas more than those proposed on the internet sites you sited.

I have read all those theories on pitching, and I respectfully disagree.  Even if I bought all those theories as being true, I would not have proposed it as the basis for our scoring of pitching.  Those theories twist the reality of what happened on the field into something other than what actually occurred.  For example, it'd be nice if Ricky Nolasco did not continue to have bad innings and compile nearly a 5 ERA over the past 1.5 seasons, but after a while it is not just bad luck or bad defense.  It's bad pitching!

[Canada8999]

Brewers,

Forgive me for being blunt, but I do not accept that it is proven that the pitching theories you have suggested are commonly held facts.  Pitchers like Bob Gibson and Tom Seaver would scoff at those theories, because they held themselves accountable for everything that happened on the field whether it was cheap hits or errors.  Bill James did not eliminate earned runs or hits out of his pitching formulas.  Forgive me, but I trust James' formulas more than those proposed on the internet sites you sited.

Bob Gibson had a career FIP of 2.89... slightly below his ERA of 2.91 - are you sure he'd be upset?

[Canada8999]

Even if I bought all those theories as being true, I would not have proposed it as the basis for our scoring of pitching.  Those theories twist the reality of what happened on the field into something other than what actually occurred

Ignorance is bliss my friend...
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2010-04-01/uzr-fip-babip-stats-give-baseball-new-language
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/glossary/index.php?search=FIP

I could list countless websites that promote these facts, I encourage you to find one reputable source that disputes them...