Questions/Suggestions

[Interpaga]

Derozan is 3 years younger than Lowry but still remains a 32 years old player with a very expensive 4 years contract. There is a difference in value between Derozan and Lowry but there is a difference also between the two packages of picks/players offered for them.
We do not want to start an asset-by-asset comparison of the two trades, this is not our goal.
It is pretty clear, in our opinion, that the logic, the type of teams involved (rebuilding team and contender) and the overall balance of the traded assets in the 2 trades are very similar.
We just would like to have a clarification on the policy about trades between contenders and rebuilding teams involving old players with expensive contracts, to avoid that similar trades are treated in different ways

[DynastyDeacon]

I am also curious as to the answer of the above question.

Lowry and DeRozan make a very interesting case study as both have similar current values at #68 (DeRozan) and #71 (Lowry) overall and both have a 4 year/$22m per year contract running now through the 24-25 season. I think it is important to do an analysis of players currently playing that are their same ages and older as that can give perspective as to what to expect in terms of their future value in trades and future playing ability. This can give valuable insight into when a player goes from having value to just being a salary dump.

Current Ages:
Kyle Lowry - 35 years old
Demar DeRozan - 32 years old

Age at the end of this season:
Kyle Lowry - 36 years old
Demar DeRozan - 32 years old

Age at the end of the 2024-2025 season (June 2025) when both their 4 year/$22m per year contracts expire.
Kyle Lowry - 39 years old
Demar DeRozan - 35 years old

Many players are still in their prime in their early 30s. There are quite a few players still playing at an extremely high level in their early to mid 30s: (Steph Curry - 33 years old, #2 rank; James Harden - 32 years old, #10 rank; Kevin Durant - 33 years old, #16 rank; Paul George - 31 years old, #18 rank; Gordon Hayward - 31 years old, #19 rank; Russel Westbrook - 33 years old, #25 rank; Al Horford - 35 years old, #35 rank; CJ McCollum - 31 years old, #39 rank; Damian Lillard - 31 years old, #40 rank; Chris Paul - 36 years old, #44 rank; LeBron James - 36 years old, #51 rank; Ricky Rubio - 31 years old, #58 rank). There are several others in the top #100, but I stopped at #60 overall.

For some additional important perspective on a players ability to continue playing at a high level at certain ages, at the start of this season the oldest players in the league are:
1) Udonis Haslem - 41 years old
2) Andre Igoudala - 37
3) Carmelo Anthony - 37
4) LeBron James - 36
5) Paul Millsap - 36
6) P.J. Tucker - 36
7) Chris Paul - 36
8) Taj Gibson - 36
9) Trevor Ariza - 36
10) LaMarcus Aldridge - 36

It is rather common for a player to still be in their prime in their early 30s, still have substantial value (top 50 or top 100 value) in their mid-30s, but very rarely does a player have any value or even the ability to play at all in their upper 30s as seen above. Certainly some players slow down in their early 30s, but if a player has stayed rather healthy and is still playing at a high level in their early 30s they often still have substantial value in their mid-30s. I think the trades in this league have followed that premise rather accurately as Lowry was shopped significantly and most didn't want him for a 2nd round pick even if he was fully paid for the current year. While players in their early 30s like Steph Curry, Paul George, Demar DeRozan, Nikola Vucevic, Draymond Green were all traded for significant returns or signed to large contracts in free agency.

Draymond Green was more recently signed to a 5 year, $50m per year deal to run through 2026 when he will be 36 years old at the end of that contract.

[Interpaga]

We post in this section because we want to avoid to interfere in a trade with an off-topic discussion, as happened instead last week in the Derozan trade. We kindly ask the league manager a clarification about trades between rebuilding teams and contenders. Last week a trade between Spurs and Clippers was vetoed or, better, not even let to be voted. Now, an almost identical trade has just been posted. In our opinion both trades should be approved because they are fair and benefit all the teams involved but, considering the previous one was vetoed and abruptly deleted, we just ask an opinion to the league manager on veto/approval policy regarding trades involving old players with expensive contracts in rebuilding teams.
We believe that the same rules should be applied throughout the entire league. 10 days ago we lost an opportunity for finalizing a trade without even a vote taking place. A few days later, a very analogous trade with the same logic was finalized and, a bit surprisingly, by the same member who vetoed our trade.
We just think a clarification/opinion by the league manager is important on this topic

[Billy]

Answered this in moves post but copied here as well:

I've never been able to clearly explain my thought process on this kind of deal.

Essentially yes if a player is paid any kind of cap exchange from a trade that amount goes to the buyout of the player and the team dropping him would only pay a cap hit equal to whatever is needed to cover the rest of the cap hit. IE if someone's cap hit is $7m for dropping and another team is paying him $5m, the releasing team would need to pay the remaining $2m cap hit.

If someone is fully paid, then the dropping team would just have the players cap dropped along with the cap exchange for a net $0 gaining. Would create too much of an trade advantage if someone could trade for some high contract player fully paid and drop them to gain some cap space.

[DynastyDeacon]

What are the rules regarding the releasing of fully paid players or partially paid players and the buyout implications if the total amount paid by others is greater than the buyout amount.

The equation for calculating the buyout price is the cap hit added up from each year minus the amount paid by others. If the amount paid by others is greater than the total buyout price, would the person that dropped the player get the difference as extra cap space?

IE: Taurean Prince $14.5m (2022) is fully paid by Los Angeles Lakers. The buyout price of the original amount due is $10.9m. Can Utah Jazz buy out Taurean Prince and get $3.6m in extra cap space this year?

A more extreme example:

IE: Could I trade for Blake Griffin $16.7m (2023) and have Detroit Pistons pay $16.7m each year. The buyout price of the original amount due is $20.9m. The amount paid by others would be $33.4m. Could I then buy out Blake Griffin and gain the difference of $12.5m in extra cap space this year?

[Vik]

From league rules "Only the owner that owns that player can pay part of that player's contract in a trade. If 3 or more teams are in a trade, that 3rd team can not pay part of a salary going from team 1 to team 2 or vice-versa."

Yes per rules, only team moving the player can pay for part of their contract

Thanks, I should have checked rules 

[Billy]

Yes per rules, only team moving the player can pay for part of their contract

[DynastyDeacon]

Not sure if this was asked and it's a bit out there but curious if a 3 way trade is agreed upon would it be legal for a team to pay a portion of salary on a player they are not sending if they get compensated to do so (e.g. Lakers pay X $ on Irving and a 3rd team pays Y more $ to get total payment to 1 number). Totally cool if it's not allowed but figured I'd ask.

From league rules "Only the owner that owns that player can pay part of that player's contract in a trade. If 3 or more teams are in a trade, that 3rd team can not pay part of a salary going from team 1 to team 2 or vice-versa."

[Vik]

Not sure if this was asked and it's a bit out there but curious if a 3 way trade is agreed upon would it be legal for a team to pay a portion of salary on a player they are not sending if they get compensated to do so (e.g. Lakers pay X $ on Irving and a 3rd team pays Y more $ to get total payment to 1 number). Totally cool if it's not allowed but figured I'd ask.

[Billy]

Ok thanks.
So you can resign a player during the season even if you go above the cap in the following year, but you cannot resign a player with an expired contract and go above the cap when the new season starts. Is it correct?

Yes that's correct. You are allowed to go over cap in future years so an extension in season that puts you over next year's cap is legal. Any moves made in the off season that would put you over the cap are invalid.