ProFSL: Pro Fantasy Sports Leagues
Fantasy Leagues => Franchise NHL: Transactions => Franchise NHL => NHL Leagues => Franchise NHL: Completed Transactions => Topic started by: joeshmoe on September 05, 2012, 01:25:06 PM
-
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=51028.0
How is this an acceptable loophole in a franchise league? No wonder the league is so slighted to a few teams. Because people can do things like this.
This league should not be so cumbersome as to that, if you don't check in every single day your team is destroyed. Who wants to come to our league to pick up the pieces of this? We should not be able to snipe players from teams so easily.
Gross
-
This quote was the team that drafted him signing him to a contract and calling him up to the majors.
-
This quote was the team that drafted him signing him to a contract and calling him up to the majors.
Okay, maybe a wrong choice for the example, but the situation is still valid.
-
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=51028.0
How is this an acceptable loophole in a franchise league? No wonder the league is so slighted to a few teams. Because people can do things like this.
This league should not be so cumbersome as to that, if you don't check in every single day your team is destroyed. Who wants to come to our league to pick up the pieces of this? We should not be able to snipe players from teams so easily.
Gross
what situation/rule/strategy are you referring to? perhaps it's already been addressed by the previous commish? lmk
-
what situation/rule/strategy are you referring to? perhaps it's already been addressed by the previous commish? lmk
I am talking about the rule change to allow for people to take prospects who have reached 40 games. The players shouldnt be dropped as it really screws up the system and ruins teams with bad owners...only to help the teams which are profsl-pros and have all day to sit at the keyboard.
Also, it might be different if we could see the stats and games played easily, i.e. if MiLR players were entered into fantrax...but this is not the case. Simply makes this league more work.
to examples of this:
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=47045.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=47075.0
-
I am talking about the rule change to allow for people to take prospects who have reached 40 games. The players shouldnt be dropped as it really screws up the system and ruins teams with bad owners...only to help the teams which are profsl-pros and have all day to sit at the keyboard.
Also, it might be different if we could see the stats and games played easily, i.e. if MiLR players were entered into fantrax...but this is not the case. Simply makes this league more work.
to examples of this:
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=47045.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=47075.0
got it... i joined in yr2 and thought that was the way it was originally setup. either way, everyone has a fair shot at the released MiLR players that have exceeded the 40 gm limit.
in fact, i though hf6k + mike were very generous to allow for 24hr notification of the games exceeded.
but i have to say you ask for reality and yet you think that there should be a safety net in place to protect team property?
i've said it before, it's not like 40 games crept up on a GM. an owner can sign the MiLR player after they've played 1 game, or 40 games... failure to sign an active MiLR is just a case of a person gambling they won't get caught. lol
-
I am talking about the rule change to allow for people to take prospects who have reached 40 games. The players shouldnt be dropped as it really screws up the system and ruins teams with bad owners...only to help the teams which are profsl-pros and have all day to sit at the keyboard.
Also, it might be different if we could see the stats and games played easily, i.e. if MiLR players were entered into fantrax...but this is not the case. Simply makes this league more work.
to examples of this:
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=47045.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=47075.0
Whoa whoa whoa, joeshmoe, are you saying that once a player hits 40 games in the NHL and isn't signed to a contract/brought up to the NHL club, that they are automatically released into FA for everyone to bid on?
That seems quite ridiculous...
As joeshmoe said, not all of us can be on a computer to track when the 40th game is played, or even the 37-39th....
YES, usually if a player is putting up decent pionts than he would already be on the NHL club, aka RNH, Landeskog last year, Yakupv this year. Don't think their owners would let them sit in the minors when they're probably better than a lot of players on their NHL roster.
But at the same time, 40 games is pretty tough to judge a rookie's value.
Maybe it makes more sense, that once a prospect reaches 40 games, if he's NOT called up to the NHL team, he can't be called up for the rest of the season.
THEN, at the end of the season (in our off-season), the owner has to decide whether they want to keep that prospect (sign to a contract and bring up), or release into the FA pool. Much like extensions would work, except it's also with prospects over 40 games played.
Example:
Alex Galchenyuk is relegated to a 3rd line role in Montreal with no powerplay time, but is still dressing every night. Barely is putting up any FanPoints.
Once he hits 40 games, the owner does not want to bring him up because his/her team has a shot to win the title and doesn't want to burn a roster spot on a rookie that is not doing anything.
You (PigsRule) let the owner hold on to Gally, but even if he gets promoted to the 1st line due to injury on the Habs in say game 60, he can't be called up to the NHL club.
Once the season is over, the owner then must make a decision of whether or not to keep Gally. If they want him, they sign him to a contract (max 2 years at this point because he has technically burned his 1st year of contract eligibility) and have to bring him up to the NHL club.
If they don't want him, they simple release him to FA (again, kind of the same process as an expiring contract - either you re-sign the player, or you release into FA).
Probably a bad example of player choice, but maybe more of a realistic one than using Nail Yakupov, haha.
I would propose that just because it's so hard to judge the value of rookies if they are not sure-fire players like Yakupov, Galchenyuk, etc. And being 18-20 year old rookies, most of them don't step into top line roles and score 50-70 points in their first season... Let alone their first 40 games in the big leagues. It takes time to adjust and time for the coaches to gain confidence in them.... Tough to do over just half a season.
Sometimes you see rookies really come on in the 2nd half of the season, in the last 30 games or so, when they are more comfortable with everything.
That's the time when a fantasy owner can more accurately judge where the guy will go in the future... I think anyways.
Just my idea/thought on this matter.... If I have the situation joeshmoe brought right.
-
Whoa whoa whoa, joeshmoe, are you saying that once a player hits 40 games in the NHL and isn't signed to a contract/brought up to the NHL club, that they are automatically released into FA for everyone to bid on?
That seems quite ridiculous...
As joeshmoe said, not all of us can be on a computer to track when the 40th game is played, or even the 37-39th....
This is exactly what I'm saying.
When the league was founded the players, once reached forty games were simply put onto the major league roster automatically. If that caused a penalty (over cap or over roster size) then you had the owner make adjustments, but they weren't robbed in the meanwhile. The administration checked the rosters every so often to make sure they were up to date. It wasn't so aggressive.
That was changed year two and was a terrible step forward for the league. It was set up to help the few and that is apparent if you track it back to its origin.
Also, pigs, if a person should place players on their major league roster to avoid the penalties, why even have minor league rosters? The idea was that it's a place for minor leaguers to grow without costing the major league team the chance to compete. The intent was beautiful. Otherwise, lets just do away with minor league rosters and count all contracts towards the cap, this way it's fair across the board and not set up to benefit the profsl-pros.
-
Whoa whoa whoa, joeshmoe, are you saying that once a player hits 40 games in the NHL and isn't signed to a contract/brought up to the NHL club, that they are automatically released into FA for everyone to bid on?
That seems quite ridiculous...
As joeshmoe said, not all of us can be on a computer to track when the 40th game is played, or even the 37-39th....
YES, usually if a player is putting up decent pionts than he would already be on the NHL club, aka RNH, Landeskog last year, Yakupv this year. Don't think their owners would let them sit in the minors when they're probably better than a lot of players on their NHL roster.
But at the same time, 40 games is pretty tough to judge a rookie's value.
Maybe it makes more sense, that once a prospect reaches 40 games, if he's NOT called up to the NHL team, he can't be called up for the rest of the season.
THEN, at the end of the season (in our off-season), the owner has to decide whether they want to keep that prospect (sign to a contract and bring up), or release into the FA pool. Much like extensions would work, except it's also with prospects over 40 games played.
Example:
Alex Galchenyuk is relegated to a 3rd line role in Montreal with no powerplay time, but is still dressing every night. Barely is putting up any FanPoints.
Once he hits 40 games, the owner does not want to bring him up because his/her team has a shot to win the title and doesn't want to burn a roster spot on a rookie that is not doing anything.
You (PigsRule) let the owner hold on to Gally, but even if he gets promoted to the 1st line due to injury on the Habs in say game 60, he can't be called up to the NHL club.
Once the season is over, the owner then must make a decision of whether or not to keep Gally. If they want him, they sign him to a contract (max 2 years at this point because he has technically burned his 1st year of contract eligibility) and have to bring him up to the NHL club.
If they don't want him, they simple release him to FA (again, kind of the same process as an expiring contract - either you re-sign the player, or you release into FA).
Probably a bad example of player choice, but maybe more of a realistic one than using Nail Yakupov, haha.
I would propose that just because it's so hard to judge the value of rookies if they are not sure-fire players like Yakupov, Galchenyuk, etc. And being 18-20 year old rookies, most of them don't step into top line roles and score 50-70 points in their first season... Let alone their first 40 games in the big leagues. It takes time to adjust and time for the coaches to gain confidence in them.... Tough to do over just half a season.
Sometimes you see rookies really come on in the 2nd half of the season, in the last 30 games or so, when they are more comfortable with everything.
That's the time when a fantasy owner can more accurately judge where the guy will go in the future... I think anyways.
Just my idea/thought on this matter.... If I have the situation joeshmoe brought right.
Agreed Capn Colly very well said
-
i dont always agree with Joe, but this is one area that I do.
I would agree with the current ruling if we were able to actively call up and send down players to our minors similar to the NHL but at only 40 games its a small sampling of a players true potential.
I like capt'n Callys take on it.
The 40 and done rule seems to move favor the active GM's while hurting the teams with an inactive GM and although I do believe in rewarding activity, there has been a lot of poaching of the inactive teams which I feel need protecting until its a fully 30 active GM league.
Maybe keep the rule as is but give a 7 day period or institute a 10 game ahead warning email asking for acknowledgment from the GM. If the GM acknowledges than fair game, if not maybe the league needs to take over that team and do/make decisions that are in the best interest of preserving that team.
I feel the same about teams FA/extensions/free agency at the year end. If a team has no or an inactive GM, than we should have a list of Foster GMS that are willing to make decisions or transactions with the benefit of that team in mind.
-
i dont always agree with Joe, but this is one area that I do.
:disco:
I would agree with the current ruling if we were able to actively call up and send down players to our minors similar to the NHL but at only 40 games its a small sampling of a players true potential.
I like capt'n Callys take on it.
The 40 and done rule seems to move favor the active GM's while hurting the teams with an inactive GM and although I do believe in rewarding activity, there has been a lot of poaching of the inactive teams which I feel need protecting until its a fully 30 active GM league.
Maybe keep the rule as is but give a 7 day period or institute a 10 game ahead warning email asking for acknowledgment from the GM. If the GM acknowledges than fair game, if not maybe the league needs to take over that team and do/make decisions that are in the best interest of preserving that team.
This another potential way to handle it. I still think protecting teams is best, but a compromise never-the-less.
I feel the same about teams FA/extensions/free agency at the year end. If a team has no or an inactive GM, than we should have a list of Foster GMS that are willing to make decisions or transactions with the benefit of that team in mind.
I would be in favor of this, but why not then just have replacement gms. What if the league submitted roster changes for voting on by the membership? Or something else?
-
that was a suggestion of what to do while looking for a new GM, and rather than have someone from outside take over for only a few weeks that doesnt understand the inner workings of the league I think it would be better to have seasoned GM of FNHL make the moves.
-
Sounds like the guys above want a country club pool where you come and go as you please. Next thing you know they'll ask for towel boys.
This doesn't really even impact play all that much. Why fuss over this?
-
Sounds like the guys above want a country club pool where you come and go as you please. Next thing you know they'll ask for towel boys.
This doesn't really even impact play all that much. Why fuss over this?
That is probably a misunderstanding of what we're talking about.
And it does impact play, as it creates an artificial gap between the haves and have nots....that doesnt need to be.
-
Think about it this way, when the Phoenix Coyotes went bankrupt the NHL didnt just let the team run with no owner and not make any attempts to retain their free agents or put together a competitive team.
The NHL has continued to run the team and make strategic moves that make it attractive to a new owner. If we have a team thats GM has gone AWOL then I think reasonable effort needs to be made to keep the team as an attractive take over for a new GM.
-
Think about it this way, when the Phoenix Coyotes went bankrupt the NHL didnt just let the team run with no owner and not make any attempts to retain their free agents or put together a competitive team.
The NHL has continued to run the team and make strategic moves that make it attractive to a new owner. If we have a team thats GM has gone AWOL then I think reasonable effort needs to be made to keep the team as an attractive take over for a new GM.
i agree with ur statement and the example is completely valid.
fast forward to the 2012 off-season. no less than 5 teams were owner-less with a few more in questionable state for various reasons (owners sat on the sidelines while the league found a new commish, or 2... some were on vacation and figured the league for dead in May + June, i was almost in that boat)...
so i took basic control of the teams, prep'ed relevant pending FAs to be resigned, teams included :CHI-NHL: :COL-NHL: :MON-NHL: :CLS: :NJD:
in :PIT-NHL: i replaced the owner and invited Izaman3 and he hit the ground running, as did every else who's been invited to take over these teams including you Snug with :NYI: ! :toast:
the league couldn't afford to let each team's key players walk due to a vacant owner's chair.
then i actively sought out knowledgeable owners.
however, in :BOS-NHL: case, they missed 5-6 posts plastered on key pgs over 1.5mths (plus missed the entire 4 round draft causing a full 12-hr cycle timeout each time) and thus lost core players due to a ruling made by the ex-interim commish. i monitored that and made a judgement call... the commish unfortunately cannot babysit every team especially if the owner is on the site frequently and still misses important notices.
so agreed Snug, i see protecting each team as part of the league's/commissioner's mandate. :judge: :toast:
-
set, spike , match , you sunk my battleship!
:toast:
That was before my time and hopefully with the new crop of GM's this wont really be an issue.
-
this is a great discussion btw...
now let me speak as a team owner and not the commish... i have to balance the thinking here.
:FLO: owner says... seriously guys! seriously?!?
u can't have ur cake and eat it too.
all these comments below ask for hand-holding.
it takes min. of 60-days (2months) play 40 NHL games. if you're not on the site in 2 months, it's best you step away from any league, not just FNHL. :o
note: inactive owners was a serious issue in yr1, no?? so why reward inactivity? doesn't make sense.
also, if 40 games isn't enough to assess rookie talent, that's a seperate matter.
suggestion: raise MiLR games limit from 40 to 82 games. :thumbsup:
but who's gonna say, "hold it, it takes longer to evaluate goalies and d-men!"?
someone drew the line for the rule. it's a rule to keep the league structured. isn't that the point of these leagues, some structure but not all uniform.
Whoa whoa whoa, joeshmoe, are you saying that once a player hits 40 games in the NHL and isn't signed to a contract/brought up to the NHL club, that they are automatically released into FA for everyone to bid on?
That seems quite ridiculous...
As joeshmoe said, not all of us can be on a computer to track when the 40th game is played, or even the 37-39th....
...
But at the same time, 40 games is pretty tough to judge a rookie's value.
...
...
The 40 and done rule seems to move favor the active GM's while hurting the teams with an inactive GM and although I do believe in rewarding activity, there has been a lot of poaching of the inactive teams which I feel need protecting until its a fully 30 active GM league.
...
...
And it does impact play, as it creates an artificial gap between the haves and have nots....that doesnt need to be.
now this comment above is kinda funny imo.
i can say the same for teams that joined well after FNHL was setup and took on projects and crippled teams (ones without any goalie, without cap space, no prospects on the horizon).
the likes of NYI, CHI, CBJ, COL + MON are all so-called "have not" teams and i can sympathize with them. even :PHO: and my :FLO: were projects without a starter when hockeyfreak47 and i took over our teams last July'11... but isn't that the point of fantasy sometimes to take on a full rebuild and having some fun with it? i invited all those new owners and openly told them the teams were projects. in fact i told snug and a few others the :NYI: was the biggest project outside of :CHI-NHL: (it's no wonder it took forever to find their new owner).
the way i see it, the 40 gms and done rule is asking owners to monitor + manage their team present + future. isn't that why ppl signed up for this league ... there's a MiLR to play with!? otherwise, what's the point of a minor league system if you except someone else to automatically manage your minors for you either manually or with safety net rules?
should the :EC: automatically roll over every pending FA's contract as well? isn't that what you guys are basically asking for here? i hope not.
-
I have no problem with the rebuild, I actually took the NYI as a challenge.
I was mainly looking at the hodgson example, since the petry one is a ho, hum gamble but Hodgson is and will be a great player. I know in my league that I comish if I saw a team letting a guy like hodgson go without signing him I would have probably blocked that deal as either the GM isnt knowledgeable or inactive.
That said this didnt happen on your watch so you cant bare the responsibility for it. I was making a suggestion to prevent it in the future, which as I pointed out in a previous thread hopefully shouldnt be an issue with the new crop of active GM's.
-
the way i see it, the 40 gms and done rule is asking owners to monitor + manage their team present + future. isn't that why ppl signed up for this league ... there's a MiLR to play with!? otherwise, what's the point of a minor league system if you except someone else to automatically manage your minors for you either manually or with safety net rules?
should the :EC: automatically roll over every pending FA's contract as well? isn't that what you guys are basically asking for here? i hope not.
Isn't the point of a minor league team to: have "minor league" players - or in this case, players under 40 games of NHL experience?
I bring this up because I know my team has about 5 players that have not played in the NHL and maybe won't play in the NHL (40 games anyways) for 1-3 more seasons.
What's the point of burning roster spots on a team like mine when they won't contribute.
I have what, 3C, 4LW, 3RW, 1G and a full set of D to compete with this year, with the rest of the roster filled out by guys that most likely won't play this year, and if they do, will have very little impact.
Why are those types of players not "allowed" to be sent to the minor league system? Half of my RW group have never skated in an NHL game...
Don't get me wrong, I knew this "rule" or "system" whey I joined, so I am not complaining - I'm just using my team as an example because I know it better than anyone else's. I'm sure other teams have some players, or prospects, that are on their NHL team that won't be in the NHL for a while either.
Just seems silly to try to compete with other teams' full rosters, when there are still prospects on your main roster that won't contribute any points.
If I actually didn't give a poop about my team I'd buy out all the NHL players and sign whatever rookies are left over from previous years drafts (kind of like snug has slowly been doing) and then just tank it for the next 2 years to get higher draft picks in the yearly draft.
-
Hey now i still have enough guys to fill my roster on any given night. :toth:
-
this is a great discussion btw...
now let me speak as a team owner and not the commish... i have to balance the thinking here.
:FLO: owner says... seriously guys! seriously?!?
u can't have ur cake and eat it too.
all these comments below ask for hand-holding.
it takes min. of 60-days (2months) play 40 NHL games. if you're not on the site in 2 months, it's best you step away from any league, not just FNHL. :o
note: inactive owners was a serious issue in yr1, no?? so why reward inactivity? doesn't make sense.
also, if 40 games isn't enough to assess rookie talent, that's a seperate matter.
suggestion: raise MiLR games limit from 40 to 82 games. :thumbsup:
but who's gonna say, "hold it, it takes longer to evaluate goalies and d-men!"?
someone drew the line for the rule. it's a rule to keep the league structured. isn't that the point of these leagues, some structure but not all uniform.
now this comment above is kinda funny imo.
i can say the same for teams that joined well after FNHL was setup and took on projects and crippled teams (ones without any goalie, without cap space, no prospects on the horizon).
the likes of NYI, CHI, CBJ, COL + MON are all so-called "have not" teams and i can sympathize with them. even :PHO: and my :FLO: were projects without a starter when hockeyfreak47 and i took over our teams last July'11... but isn't that the point of fantasy sometimes to take on a full rebuild and having some fun with it? i invited all those new owners and openly told them the teams were projects. in fact i told snug and a few others the :NYI: was the biggest project outside of :CHI-NHL: (it's no wonder it took forever to find their new owner).
the way i see it, the 40 gms and done rule is asking owners to monitor + manage their team present + future. isn't that why ppl signed up for this league ... there's a MiLR to play with!? otherwise, what's the point of a minor league system if you except someone else to automatically manage your minors for you either manually or with safety net rules?
should the :EC: automatically roll over every pending FA's contract as well? isn't that what you guys are basically asking for here? i hope not.
You miss the point completely, congrats! :toth:
-
so agreed Snug, i see protecting each team as part of the league's/commissioner's mandate. :judge: :toast:
How can you even post this if you stand for teams snipping the young talent from struggling squads? The teams that get the guys quickest to the NHL need them the most. This is a confusing statement.
And your dig on Boston assumes that the administration wasn't smart enough to follow the rules clearly written out. Lets bring the problem to the root of the issue if we're going to bring it up.
-
How can you even post this if you stand for teams snipping the young talent from struggling squads? The teams that get the guys quickest to the NHL need them the most. This is a confusing statement.
And your dig on Boston assumes that the administration wasn't smart enough to follow the rules clearly written out. Lets bring the problem to the root of the issue if we're going to bring it up.
It's like you have it in for people around here bro. What gives
-
Isn't the point of a minor league team to: have "minor league" players - or in this case, players under 40 games of NHL experience?
I bring this up because I know my team has about 5 players that have not played in the NHL and maybe won't play in the NHL (40 games anyways) for 1-3 more seasons.
What's the point of burning roster spots on a team like mine when they won't contribute.
I have what, 3C, 4LW, 3RW, 1G and a full set of D to compete with this year, with the rest of the roster filled out by guys that most likely won't play this year, and if they do, will have very little impact.
Why are those types of players not "allowed" to be sent to the minor league system? Half of my RW group have never skated in an NHL game...
Don't get me wrong, I knew this "rule" or "system" whey I joined, so I am not complaining - I'm just using my team as an example because I know it better than anyone else's. I'm sure other teams have some players, or prospects, that are on their NHL team that won't be in the NHL for a while either.
Just seems silly to try to compete with other teams' full rosters, when there are still prospects on your main roster that won't contribute any points.
If I actually didn't give a poop about my team I'd buy out all the NHL players and sign whatever rookies are left over from previous years drafts (kind of like snug has slowly been doing) and then just tank it for the next 2 years to get higher draft picks in the yearly draft.
I don't know what the last manager was smoking but that Avs roster is stacked with prospects. Why would anyone sit round and wait years to rebuild a fantasy team. You can build or tear down a team almost overnight anytime.
On that note why don't you send over Huberneau/Jurco and see what I'll send back. haha
-
I don't know what the last manager was smoking but that Avs roster is stacked with prospects. Why would anyone sit round and wait years to rebuild a fantasy team. You can build or tear down a team almost overnight anytime.
On that note why don't you send over Huberneau/Jurco and see what I'll send back. haha
Haha... I was talking more about the guys signed on the NHL roster than the guys in the minors! Kuznetsov, Shore, Pulk, Thomas, Bulmer, etc etc. Seems pointless to have em on my roster since they're not in the NHL.
But oh well my NHL players suck too so overall the team as a whole will suck until those young guys hit the NHL. This is a fairly low-maintenance team haha. Just set the roster and watch the team get destroyed every week! I'm prepared for the worst...!
-
I see this thread as an opportunity for some teams to hurl negative comments and see no need to leave this open any long. The title itself is ultra negative in tone.
if the league owners want to discuss this MiLR matter in a professional matter, pl open a new thread and be professional.
thread closed.