Trade b/w Rockies & Cubs

[h4cheng]

Rockies:

P Zambrano, Carlos, $18.5m (2012)
P Carpenter, Chris, $12.5m (2011)
5M off Zambrano's contract PER Year

Cubs:

P Maloney, Matt, $0.5m (P-n/a)
6-20 COL
7-20 COL
8-20 COL
9-2 COL (from BAL)
9-20 COL
10-2 COL (from BAL)
10-20 COL

[bridgestone]

Rockies:

P Zambrano, Carlos, $18.5m (2012)
P Carpenter, Chris, $12.5m (2011)
5M off Zambrano's contract PER Year

Cubs:

P Maloney, Matt, $0.5m (P-n/a)
6-20 COL
7-20 COL
8-20 COL
9-2 COL (from BAL)
9-20 COL
10-2 COL (from BAL)
10-20 COL

I didn't know if you were posting it as I just did (Jake/Colby delete/move please?).  One thing about this trade is that Howe instructed all of his picks were moving.  This would include his 5-20 pick he is getting back from the Orioles in the pending trade.

[h4cheng]

Agreed, Cubs inherit all my picks...

[lp815]

Cubs, I think I'll need a bit better reasoning on giving up a SP1 and an SP2/3 for a low end prospect and nothing above a 5th round pick.  I understand the salary dump, but this might be a bit too one sided.  The Haren and Vasquez trades come to mind when I think about SP1's moving teams, and both of those trades involved high picks and decent players.  I'm not set on saying no, but would like a bit more information on the trade.

[Canada8999]

I'll second Jake's request for more information.

[bridgestone]

Cubs, I think I'll need a bit better reasoning on giving up a SP1 and an SP2/3 for a low end prospect and nothing above a 5th round pick.  I understand the salary dump, but this might be a bit too one sided.  The Haren and Vasquez trades come to mind when I think about SP1's moving teams, and both of those trades involved high picks and decent players.  I'm not set on saying no, but would like a bit more information on the trade.

I really needed to cut salary, so acquiring a star like Carpenter was going to help me do it.  I will end up with more picks in the draft albeit further back plus a star pitcher in the making with Maloney.  This allows me to make a splash in free agency.

[h4cheng]

Seriously guys, there has a lot more uneven trades in this league then this one. I am taking on over 60M of salary for one injury prone pitcher and one guy who is becoming injury prone. Maloney is hell lot better than just a low level prospect. Let the deal go, we both know what we are doing...

[lp815]

Rockies, I'm not questioning that you or the Cubs know what you are doing.  I'm questioning whether the trade is too one sided.  Trades in this league rarely have rules, but I believe the league should have a bit of consistency when players are moved. 

With injury risks, it isn't wise to assume players will get hurt, teams assume they WON'T get hurt.  If you knew Carp and Z would get hurt, you wouldn't take them, and neither would I.  So I wouldn't value injury risk as a reason to move nothing better than a 5th round pick and Maloney for a SP1. 

If you believe that there have been uneven trades in this league, this is the first I have heard of it from you.  If you wish to go over it with the RC, feel free to.  It is encouraged.  Otherwise, the RC will go over the trade, and see if it is good as is, or if it needs to be improved.  I assure you, we know what we are doing.

[h4cheng]

Rockies, I'm not questioning that you or the Cubs know what you are doing.  I'm questioning whether the trade is too one sided.  Trades in this league rarely have rules, but I believe the league should have a bit of consistency when players are moved. 

With injury risks, it isn't wise to assume players will get hurt, teams assume they WON'T get hurt.  If you knew Carp and Z would get hurt, you wouldn't take them, and neither would I.  So I wouldn't value injury risk as a reason to move nothing better than a 5th round pick and Maloney for a SP1. 

If you believe that there have been uneven trades in this league, this is the first I have heard of it from you.  If you wish to go over it with the RC, feel free to.  It is encouraged.  Otherwise, the RC will go over the trade, and see if it is good as is, or if it needs to be improved.  I assure you, we know what we are doing.

As long as there is no evidence of cheating, then that should be enough to let the trade through. Why dont I say anything if I see an uneven deal? Because it's part of the game. Trades that I see as one sided may look fair to others. Trades that everyone sees as one sides might work out unexpectedly. The point it, just because a trade seems to be one sided doesn't mean it is or will be one sided. Therefore, simply saying that you feel a trade is unfair is not grounds for rejection. We both offered our views on the trade, there is no evidence of cheating, let the deal go...

[lp815]

As long as there is no evidence of cheating, then that should be enough to let the trade through. Why dont I say anything if I see an uneven deal? Because it's part of the game. Trades that I see as one sided may look fair to others. Trades that everyone sees as one sides might work out unexpectedly. The point it, just because a trade seems to be one sided doesn't mean it is or will be one sided. Therefore, simply saying that you feel a trade is unfair is not grounds for rejection. We both offered our views on the trade, there is no evidence of cheating, let the deal go...

This can be taken out of context if the league allows trades of questionable sort to pass.  For instance, a Joe Mauer for, let's say, Jose Guillen.  'One side is in need of a catcher, the other an outfielder, so what's the problem?' the teams claim.  The reality is that all players in this league do have a value, though it is never said or given.  It is just a consensus value that us members, experts, even the MLB itself has on it's players.  We know that the skill levels of certain players overmatch others, otherwise we would see outlandish trades all over the league.  It is just a given assessment in fantasy sports.  If we allow every trade to go through, what is the point of a Trade Committee then? What is the point of approving each trade if we are supposed to allow every one, every time?

Two of your reasons for this trade is that you are taking on injury prone players and that there have been uneven trades in the league already.  I don't see the logic in those reasonings, simply put.

I understand that the Pujols deal, as well as even the Dye/Helton deal seemed very iffy to some.  Looking back on it, maybe both should have been reviewed more carefully, but the decisions were made, and we cannot change that.  But we have to learn to not let those trades pass, not just keep allowing them.

I have not made a vote yet.  Rockies and Cubs, I would like to see the Cubs receive one or two more players of some sort, and they do not have to be great, or even good, players.  If that happens, I will definitely be more accepting of this trade.

Other RC members, please chime in here, let the league know how each of us feel on situations like this.  I'm only one member, and if I am overruled, that's totally fine, that's the game we play. :koolaid: