PROPOSED: 5 Rule Revision for Goalies

[joeshmoe]

My opinion.... Joeshmoe should start his own league, brand new from scratch so he can write his own rules, the way HE wants them!

Reading all the posts on this league, it seems like joeshmoe has a problem or disagreement or opinion on almost all of the topics and rules and rulings on here.

Not sure if he's just bitter about his team being screwed over and losing Marchand and Bishop, or if he has a chip on his shoulder against one or more people or commish's in this league, but is sure seems like he's one unhappy bugger!

Your opinion is well noted.  I am opinionated because I have opinions, which is of no real issue.  I disagree with a lot of changes, absolutely.  I am sour about the prospect thing, but this has nothing to do with any of my opinions on rules.  That comes from my understanding of the universe.

Furthermore, I was 'screwed over' because I didn't offer my opinion.  Had I done so the issue would have been illuminated.  Therefore, I feel I should offer an opinion on all issues that I have an opinion for.

But this is a forum for goalies talk...

[Capn Cally]

Your opinion is well noted.  I am opinionated because I have opinions, which is of no real issue.  I disagree with a lot of changes, absolutely.  I am sour about the prospect thing, but this has nothing to do with any of my opinions on rules.  That comes from my understanding of the universe.

Furthermore, I was 'screwed over' because I didn't offer my opinion.  Had I done so the issue would have been illuminated.  Therefore, I feel I should offer an opinion on all issues that I have an opinion for.

But this is a forum for goalies talk...

Seems like you should get in cahoots with PigsRule and be co-commish's or something and/or take over from him - seems he doesn't want to do this past this year and you have plenty of inputs and ideas.

But I mean it's a free league so who really cares that much about a bunch of small technicalities and stuff. If we all had $100 invested then yeah, they should all be changed or put in place, but in a free league who really gives a **** about stupid little matters!
It's a 30-team league, we won't all have tons star players, and most of us will suck. It's reality. But it's also free, so you shouldn't sweat over it! Just have fun with whatever team you've got. I know my team sucks a$$ but whatever, haha. Maybe by the time Kuznetsov is in the NHL my team will compete!

[snugerud]

If you cap the amount paid on goalies (this is not an argument against 1 goalie...I think that's okay) it will INCREASE the problem, if the problem truly is that teams don't have starters.  Let me explain.  The price of goalies will go down, which means teams will have money to spend on more goalies.  If the price was increased (ie. due to natural market demands[supply vs demand]) then teams would have less to spend on goalie #2 and Goalie #3 meaning there the demand goes down, and price goes down, and more teams may afford goalies.


I also don't think that teams need babying by the rules to make sure they have starters....some real NHL teams don't have real starters either!!  You have to make your decisions about spending somewhere.

I never went to University and I haven't read your economics book but...

This explanation only works if all goalies prices are set in a fair and open market, ie all goalies go to unrestricted free agency.  We already have an artificially set cap on goalies set by the extension rules. 

if all goalies went to ufa, i agree the market would dictate their price in such a way that teams would not be able to afford to keep 2 or 3 starting goalies year after year because teams would drive up the prices, but the league uses extensions which sees goalies prices set at a max of 6.8 million per year for the top goalie and declining. You will never see 98% of the goalies on the teams now ever reach FA since it is far more economical to continue extending them. 

Why does this remind me of the movie Good Will Hunting2 Hunting Season?  apple sauce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnESedN4vSI

[snugerud]

i will say, joe might be onto something. Rather than go through adjusting scoring and roster spots, what if we just got rid of the extensions for goalies. Than the market will set itself teams wouldnt be able to afford to have 2 10 mill goalies on their roster.  Teams would still have equal opportunity to resign their goalie but it would need to be willing to pay the fair market value. 

Food for though

[joeshmoe]

Seems like you should get in cahoots with PigsRule and be co-commish's or something and/or take over from him - seems he doesn't want to do this past this year and you have plenty of inputs and ideas.

But I mean it's a free league so who really cares that much about a bunch of small technicalities and stuff. If we all had $100 invested then yeah, they should all be changed or put in place, but in a free league who really gives a **** about stupid little matters!
It's a 30-team league, we won't all have tons star players, and most of us will suck. It's reality. But it's also free, so you shouldn't sweat over it! Just have fun with whatever team you've got. I know my team sucks a$$ but whatever, haha. Maybe by the time Kuznetsov is in the NHL my team will compete!

Unfortunately getting to run this league again was politics and I've played principles too long to now play politics with the right people to have gotten rehired as commissioner.  That being said FNHL 2 is in the works as we speak.

And just because this is a free league doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to achieve the best and most fun and competitive situation possible.  Personally for me, competitive is fun.  How do you stay competitive?  You strive to protect parody in the league, I think.

And finally I think what we need is a consistent set of rules we roll with for a while.  Lets eliminate the loopholes, call it good and move forward.  Then we can see what might naturally occur in this league.

[joeshmoe]

i will say, joe might be onto something. Rather than go through adjusting scoring and roster spots, what if we just got rid of the extensions for goalies. Than the market will set itself teams wouldnt be able to afford to have 2 10 mill goalies on their roster.  Teams would still have equal opportunity to resign their goalie but it would need to be willing to pay the fair market value. 

Food for though

In regards to both posts at once.  We definitely have to address extension values.  It is skewed somehow.  Either we:

a) use the nhl formula for cap: which will be determined and we could follow.  If we maintain extension values equal to the real NHL.  Ie the best player in the NHL gets XYZ amount for an extension, so we demand that the best player in FNHL gets XYZ amount.  The exact same values, at least we are on par with the product that does work (when was the last NHL dynasty?).

b) we assign contract extensions equal to our highest paid players.  If a ten million dollar fa contract goes to a goalie, then the extension for the goalies should shift accordingly?

c) no goalie extensions...it works, but is it real?

[joeshmoe]

i will say, joe might be onto something. Rather than go through adjusting scoring and roster spots, what if we just got rid of the extensions for goalies. Than the market will set itself teams wouldnt be able to afford to have 2 10 mill goalies on their roster.  Teams would still have equal opportunity to resign their goalie but it would need to be willing to pay the fair market value. 

Food for though

BTW I kinda like this and kinda dont.  I like how easy it is.  I just don't like its implications.  I also love FGM and it seems to work great how they do it there. 

[PsychoticPondGoons]

So you guys think having different rules for one set of players makes sense? How? Special set of extension rules only for goalies? Never seen it and just adds confusion and fails to tackle the issue.

[snugerud]

So you guys think having different rules for one set of players makes sense? How? Special set of extension rules only for goalies? Never seen it and just adds confusion and fails to tackle the issue.

Not saying that is what I want but kicking around ideas that might work that would be simple and easy to implement.  There has always been different rules for different players even now to extend goalies its cost different than forwards, they score different. 

I have actually always been a fan of putting all players into one extension table instead of breaking them into positions for multiple reasons.

1) That way the top player is always getting top dollar and you dont have to worry about the gaps between forward and d scoring because everyone falls into their respective scoring place
2) commissioners you never need to worry about did I level the scoring properly between positions.
3) less time sorting through table and extensions for the GM's its a simple where did they rank.
4) For commissioners its easier to make the adjustments to players extension costs if adjusting cap ceiling/basement. 

[snugerud]

I have one more suggestion to rectify the issues here. 

Since Goalies score 50% more than forwards and by example of their contracts in Free Agency their extension prices should be doubled from the current amount. 

I know people are saying woaa thats crazy but considering Bryz got a 13 mill a year contract , not really.  It makes extensions a much harder choice going forward for the GM's it would bring the level of extensions to a similar level of the free agent market and by the extra costs it would stop the hoarding of goalies that you would see a more even dispersal of talent. 

This method doesn't involve any changes to the current rules or creation any new rules (which could also bring with them negative effects) just an updating of the extension prices to reflect goalies worth to a team in FNHL so instead of working against the monster contracts we are working with them.  With a increase to goalie cost you will also see a resurgence of a better Free Agent class since there will be less money to throw around. 

(as an added, guys if your going to comment negatively than follow it with your version of a solution.  Its great to point out problems but what we need are a solutions)