Scoring for Pitchers

[Canada8999]

But with all that being said, the fact of the matter is, it would be flat out wrong to change the system. if you do it, it shouldnt take effect for a couple years. teams have signed players and traded for players, that fit THIS scoring system. by changing it you would effectively be screwing those teams over.

:iatp:

[rcankosy]

I would be in favor of gradually tweaking the scoring if others felt that it was more realistic.

[rcankosy]

Ignorance is bliss my friend...
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2010-04-01/uzr-fip-babip-stats-give-baseball-new-language
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/glossary/index.php?search=FIP

I could list countless websites that promote these facts, I encourage you to find one reputable source that disputes them...

Preferring James' formulas to yours is not ignorance my friend, it's intelligance!  :rofl:

[Canada8999]

Using Bill James' Game Score formula(see below) for pitching, Tommy Hunter would have compiled 53 points last night, while Tim Wakefield would have only earned 16 points.  Please think about it guys.

Start with 50 points.
Add 1 point for each out recorded, so 3 points for every complete inning pitched.
Add 2 points for each inning completed after the 4th.
Add 1 point for each strikeout.
Subtract 2 points for each hit allowed.
Subtract 4 points for each earned run allowed.
Subtract 2 points for each unearned run allowed.
Subtract 1 point for each walk.

There are several inherent issues with the Game Score

• It's designed for starting pitchers, and would not be directly re-applicable to our RP's
• It counts hits and earned runs, which are not within a pitchers control
• It does not include GB/FB, which a pitcher can control (will not capture as much actual skill as other metrics could)

This is in addition to being a major change, which is really a risky decision for scoring.

[Dan Wood]

I have been away from this posting for a while and it seems to have gone out of control. First off, Roy will be gone for the next week, so he cannot respond to any further posts until he returns. I have a few suggestions and the first one I hate, buut I am going to present it anyway.

1. Add quality starts as a category - I loathe this idea, but it gives points to a pitcher for going 6+ innings. I watched the Wakefield start and he got whooped. Despite what the stats may show, he wasn't unlucky he was just bad.  Tommy Hunter on the other hand, I feel is a fringe pitcher but he did pitch well enough despite two bombs. This could also go into luck because he was in trouble a lot of the game but got out of it. I personally feel he is due for a stat correction in the near future.

2. Somehow adding line drives. Ben I have done research on this after I had suggested it, since I didn't want to keep posting blindly. You are correct it is out of the pitchers control in a statistical manner of speaking. But if the guy isn't hitting his spots and he doesn't get hit hard, then it is the batters fault. As you said LD evens out, so if that is the case it should fluctuate from start to start. Maybe adding or subtracting from a guys weekly score.

But, and I am sure you guys have noticed it too, since I am sure you all watch a decent amount of baseball, is that some of these guys are getting hit hard on a regular basis. James Shields (going back to him again) has had his LD rate increase for the past several years, His BABIP however is a little out of line with his career norms. He also has a very good defense behind him. o my question is what does that make him? His career arc is that of a pitcher who is increasingly getting hit since his break out year of 2007. Maybe these are his new skills?

I do like the scoring the way it is, but I also feel it can be tweaked a little bit. To my knowledge there isn't a statistical measurement that is solely on the pitcher to measure if he is getting hit hard outside of home runs. Then again home runs could be a factor of weather - winds blowing in, out, park, time of year, humidity, etc. This isn't a perfect science, but I think we need something added to the pitchers scoring. I have given my suggestions, and welcome others. I agree with Roy in that aspect, but I don't think adding ERA or whip to the mix is the answer, since they are defense and bullpen dependent.   

[daddypadre]

I would be in favor of gradually tweaking the scoring if others felt that it was more realistic.

I want to know what definition you give "realistic". Are we looking to isolate the value a pitcher brings to his ball club? (which could be done using the statistics we currently use and in my opinion a few other categories) Or are we looking to find the competition and the smarts needed in picking the right pitchers on the right teams who are going to put up better numbers than a less fortunate counterpart on a worse team?