DISCUSSION: Supplemental Draft ELC value determination

[blkhwkfn]

I sense there are owners who do not like the use of minimum wage for supplemental draft prospects but don't understand why. It benefits all of us equally does it not? No one has any special advantage, correct? What am I missing? We all drafted players we wanted which is the goal of the draft IMO.

100% agree. Not sure why some want to reinvent the wheel.

Now if there is a tweek to add it would be once you Buy Out a player or release him from milr you cant attempt to resign or redraft for a season. Unless you reaquire said player through trade.

[izaman3]

PPG and I decided 2 yrs ago the SDP ELC would be the league minimum to standardize the process of graduating SDP draftees. There's a ton of work and I not going to make PPG take on more detail work verifying rank, yr, draft position, ELC salary ranges, spelling of name etc. The supplemental is meant to be fun not a new pile of admin.

I understand that this was decided 2 years ago, but I don't get why it wasn't put into the rules or explained to the GMs. If this was decided two years ago, it shouldn't be such a surprise.

I don't want to make PPG take on more work, but he is already verifying draft positions when he is adding the players to our rosters. Ever player taken in a supp draft has their real life draft position listed if they were drafted or it says UNDRAFTED. So it does not seem like an extra step to me. I could be wrong, but if so, I am willing to volunteer to do the extra admin work.

I sense there are owners who do not like the use of minimum wage for supplemental draft prospects but don't understand why. It benefits all of us equally does it not? No one has any special advantage, correct? What am I missing? We all drafted players we wanted which is the goal of the draft IMO.

I agree that it does benefit all the owners, but all the owners aren't aware this was the rule. Many were under the assumption that all MiLR players were subject to the same ELC values whether they were entry level or supplemental players. And actually, I think it is giving some teams a special advantage. The point of higher salaries for higher drafted players is that they are usually better players who score higher and should be paid more money. If not, then why do we have ELC values at all? All prospects should be eligible for the league minimum.

With this ruling, during year's supplemental draft, the entire second round could be teams dropping whoever they drafted first in the previous year's entry draft and then selecting them again in the supplemental. This creates tons of more admin work for PPG. because he would have to process all the drops and then edit the players as supplemental picks. It also means that Jack Hughes, Kaapo Kakko, Bowen Byram, and all the other top 2019 entry draft players will be signing to league minimum contracts instead of the $3m or $2.5m a year that they should be making. At that point, why should we even have ELC values?

It also creates an incentive for all teams to keep their Supplemental draft picks instead of trading them. Why would you trade a supplemental draft pick when you can save $2m in cap space on your top prospect? That will eliminate some of the excitement and activity that the supplemental draft has created.

Because many GMs will be incentivized to use their supplemental picks on highly rated, already drafted players, it also eliminates the excitement of the prospect research and efforts for GMs to find diamonds in the rough during the supplemental draft. Players I'm after keep getting taken by other GMs, and I'm sure that I'm taking people that other teams want. That is part of the fun. But instead, what is likely to happen is that many teams will simply redraft players already in their system.

[blkhwkfn]

See my post. Once you drop a player or buy him out you are done with that player. You cant redraft or bid on him. Seems a simple rewording is in order. I can say i am not seeing this still.

[izaman3]

See my post. Once you drop a player or buy him out you are done with that player. You cant redraft or bid on him. Seems a simple rewording is in order. I can say i am not seeing this still.

100% agree. Not sure why some want to reinvent the wheel.

Now if there is a tweek to add it would be once you Buy Out a player or release him from milr you cant attempt to resign or redraft for a season. Unless you reaquire said player through trade.

I would support that change. I think it could solve this issue completely. But I also think it is reinventing the wheel to have too different prospect pay scales, we already have ELC values based on real life draft position, we already have those real life draft positions listed for our players. That seems pretty simple to me.

[AntMan]

Though this is a discussion... the decision is that yr 1 and current SDP prospects (those drafted in 2018 + 2019) get a standard 0.6m ELC for skaters and 1.0m for goalies. Draft position in the Supplemental or NHl entry draft are not a factor for the SDP.

If majority of owners want to alter that after this discussion sometime in the future it can be done.

Devils advocate or whatever here but the only rule for prospect contracts written indicated nhl draft position. Nothing else exists related to contract rules.

I think the decision should go into writing before practice; feels like proper sequence else we’re offering a private advantage

I agree with the Hawks fan this is small as it’s only to the benefit of one team and easily reversed.

[EndGame]

In most leagues I have been part of,  if there is missing information or something is unclear, it becomes the responsibility of the commissioner to render a decision.

I didn't see it in writing but I PM'ed PPG amd was informed of the EL contract for SDP players.

[halo99]

I'll put my 2 cents in I guess for what it's worth.

I'll start by saying I really don't care about this that much one way or the other. Whatever PPG & PR decide to do I'm on board with. That being said I know for me personally I never had any reason to believe that the contract values would be different for the SUP draft than the FNHL entry draft. The reason being is the ELC's were always tied to the real NHL draft and not the FNHL draft. I could have the first overall pick in the FNHL draft and if I decided to take a guy drafted in the 6th round in the real draft his contract would be the minimum and not 3.0m. So I really had no reason to believe the rules would be different for the SUP draft and honestly I'm sure most people would have just assumed it's the same because we had no reason to believe otherwise because it's spelled out in black & white that ELCs are tied to the real draft.

Personally I think the rule regarding SUP ELCs should be effective starting next draft unless it was spelled out in writing ahead of time. I understand why the mods would want it and I really can't blame them for that.

 Like I said just my 2 cents this is the last thing I'll say about it.

[blkhwkfn]

I would support that change. I think it could solve this issue completely. But I also think it is reinventing the wheel to have too different prospect pay scales, we already have ELC values based on real life draft position, we already have those real life draft positions listed for our players. That seems pretty simple to me.

:iatp: yep

[ALL4U2NV]

This seems like a charged discussion led by a few owners. Sounds like Wirtz, Ballard and Snider. :rofl:

If this is an issue which I do not believe ia the case, here's a remedy. Why complicate this situation. I say just prevent Buyouts and releases during the supplemental draft. Put another way, impose a transaction freeze during the Supplemental so that teams cannot drop and draft. Colorado has been pushing that strategy to the max. Detroit was the first to use it last year. I thought it was funny and weird both the Avs and Wings are so upset suddenly.

But is there any real benefit that tips the scales in fav of a team that employs that drop and draft strategy. Not that I can see. It's perception by a few.

One players doesn't make a team. Just ask LA who owns McDavid or better, ask the NHL's Oilers. :rofl:

[ALL4U2NV]

I understand that this was decided 2 years ago, but I don't get why it wasn't put into the rules or explained to the GMs. If this was decided two years ago, it shouldn't be such a surprise.

I don't want to make PPG take on more work, but he is already verifying draft positions when he is adding the players to our rosters. Ever player taken in a supp draft has their real life draft position listed if they were drafted or it says UNDRAFTED. So it does not seem like an extra step to me. I could be wrong, but if so, I am willing to volunteer to do the extra admin work.

I agree that it does benefit all the owners, but all the owners aren't aware this was the rule. Many were under the assumption that all MiLR players were subject to the same ELC values whether they were entry level or supplemental players. And actually, I think it is giving some teams a special advantage. The point of higher salaries for higher drafted players is that they are usually better players who score higher and should be paid more money. If not, then why do we have ELC values at all? All prospects should be eligible for the league minimum.

With this ruling, during year's supplemental draft, the entire second round could be teams dropping whoever they drafted first in the previous year's entry draft and then selecting them again in the supplemental. This creates tons of more admin work for PPG. because he would have to process all the drops and then edit the players as supplemental picks. It also means that Jack Hughes, Kaapo Kakko, Bowen Byram, and all the other top 2019 entry draft players will be signing to league minimum contracts instead of the $3m or $2.5m a year that they should be making. At that point, why should we even have ELC values?

It also creates an incentive for all teams to keep their Supplemental draft picks instead of trading them. Why would you trade a supplemental draft pick when you can save $2m in cap space on your top prospect? That will eliminate some of the excitement and activity that the supplemental draft has created.

Because many GMs will be incentivized to use their supplemental picks on highly rated, already drafted players, it also eliminates the excitement of the prospect research and efforts for GMs to find diamonds in the rough during the supplemental draft. Players I'm after keep getting taken by other GMs, and I'm sure that I'm taking people that other teams want. That is part of the fun. But instead, what is likely to happen is that many teams will simply redraft players already in their system.

 

With all due respect, as vocal as you are, Detroit was to my recollection the first team to drop & draft during the inaugural supplemental. Goalie Larson I think. Ironically you opened the door that others are walking through now.