POLL: Let's vote on how we want to adjust pitching scoring.

[Brewers GM]

Bell was extended using our RP values I believe.  It is a good thought by Roy, but I want to see the market work itself out where those high salaries drop out of the list every year as we won't be signing relievers to those deals.

 :iatp:

[rcankosy]

Bell was extended using our RP values I believe.  It is a good thought by Roy, but I want to see the market work itself out where those high salaries drop out of the list every year as we won't be signing relievers to those deals.

Understood, but the RP extension values are artificially inflating the cost to re-sign certain SP/RP that are starters this year.  For example, Matt Harrison is the 93rd ranked SP in 2011, but the 9th best RP, because he was an RP last year.  He has not come in relief one game this year.

[Paul S.]

Kyle McClellan is another who was a RP last year and a SP this year.  He is ranked # 117 in 2011 as a SP at $0.5m.  He is ranked # 14 as a RP at $5m and will probably be a RP again next year which means he will not be extended.

[Dan Wood]

We could kill two birds with one stone and just eliminate SP/RP eligibility. Once a guy starts X amount of games, drop the RP. It might also help out in the IP limit area.

[Dan Wood]

I will say this, and this is just my opinion. Building a team of 9,000 starting pitchers is not a strategy, it is an accumulation. Aces still score higher than mediocre pitchers and by a lot. If teams didn't sell off their pitchers with the opinion that they are useless (which they aren't) then teams wouldn't be heading towards the IP cap, and other teams wouldn't have 2-3 SPs going every week. It is all a matter of perspective. A really good pitcher>mediocre pitcher>doody pitcher. Plus chances are pitchers will always score in the positive whereas hitters could have a bad week and score in the negative.

I honestly think the limit needs to be lowered and have said so on many an occasion, but I think the longer the league is in existence the less we will see teams selling off players(pitchers especially) whole sale to build a farm system, because eventually those teams will end up competing with their accumulating minor league talent, and will need those MLB players to continue to do so. (longest run-on sentence ever)

However that being said, 85 is too high of a number. It is ridiculous to see your opponent having a small army of starters going in one week. My argument has always been if an inning limit is realistic then certain teams will remain competitive instead of becoming cannon fodder by May 15. By allowing teams to use an excess amount of pitchers we are devaluing pitchers even further. If every team only had X amount of innings to play with then their 4 or 5 excess pitchers cannot be used. As it stands now, they can just be thrown out there, good bad or indifferent since it takes a pretty craptastic showing to score negative numbers (see Scott Kazmir).

And yes pitchers score less than hitters, but they still score more than other pitchers.

[rcankosy]

I know I proposed that we save the topic of adjusting the pitching scoring system until the off-season, but I just had to share this example with you guys.  Try to get which pitcher below averaged more fantasy points per game in 2011.  Stats are to date.

Pitcher A  103.2 IP  96 H  37 BB  66 K  3.04 ERA  10 HR  143 GB
Pitcher B    45.2 IP  59 H  26 BB  36 K  6.50 ERA    2 HR    66 GB

Answer.  Pitcher A scored 40.47 points/game and Pitcher B scored 40.22 points per game.  The names are not important, but keep in mind that Pitcher B was cut by his team 2 weeks ago.  I guess his team did not realize that he was just plain unlucky.

[Corey]

I know I proposed that we save the topic of adjusting the pitching scoring system until the off-season, but I just had to share this example with you guys.  Try to get which pitcher below averaged more fantasy points per game in 2011.  Stats are to date.

Pitcher A  103.2 IP  96 H  37 BB  66 K  3.04 ERA  10 HR  143 GB
Pitcher B    45.2 IP  59 H  26 BB  36 K  6.50 ERA    2 HR    66 GB

Answer.  Pitcher A scored 40.47 points/game and Pitcher B scored 40.22 points per game.  The names are not important, but keep in mind that Pitcher B was cut by his team 2 weeks ago.  I guess his team did not realize that he was just plain unlucky.

rofl. Good example Roy. I just got done working out, you should have done this sooner, my abs wouldnt hurt so bad. That last sentence was priceless

[Brewers GM]

Pitcher A  103.2 IP  96 H  37 BB  66 K  3.04 ERA  10 HR  143 GB
Pitcher B    45.2 IP  59 H  26 BB  36 K  6.50 ERA    2 HR    66 GB

This is a valid argument to penalize walks more than we do currently, since Pitcher A has pretty good control and Pitcher B is awful.  FIP weights walks as -3 and strikeouts as +2, but we have walks as -5 and strikeouts as +9.

With a decent K/IP rate, I'm guessing Pitcher B has mediocre stuff and his H/9 is largely affected by his BABIP - without knowing the player's name, can you post his BABIP?

[rcankosy]

This is a valid argument to penalize walks more than we do currently, since Pitcher A has pretty good control and Pitcher B is awful.  FIP weights walks as -3 and strikeouts as +2, but we have walks as -5 and strikeouts as +9.

With a decent K/IP rate, I'm guessing Pitcher B has mediocre stuff and his H/9 is largely affected by his BABIP - without knowing the player's name, can you post his BABIP?

.361

[Brewers GM]

You can't have your cake and eat it too - if a guy has RP eligibility but is currently and SP he has tremendous value (as noted by their elite rankings as an RP), and you should expect to pay for that

If you only want to re-sign the guy as an SP and never play him at an RP slot, then maybe we can allow requests to forfeit RP eligibility as soon as the player gains SP, but would have to think through the implications of that.