giants and angels trade

[Brian]

Angels get
tim lincecum 8.2m 2016
Hyu-jin-ryu 7m 2018

Giants get picks rd 5 thru 40
I hate to lose ryu but being able to cut 15.2m of my cap and getting rid of that bumb tim lincecum is well worth it

[Maydab23]

Angels approve.

Giving up all the picks hurts but the Angels feel their farm is pretty deep and full already. Getting Lincecum for $8M isn't great either but the Angels have boatloads of cap space so taking on a bad contract was worth getting Ryu at a reasonable $7M for the next 3 years.

Thanks to indiansnation for all the quick responses and pleasant negotiations.

[chrisetc21]

Changed my mind.  I'll reserve judgement.

[Jss0062]

Tough trade to weigh in on, not much value in return for a #2 starter and Lincecum who may be an 8th or 9th inning guy next season.  Ryu is really a steal at $7M.  Only real justification for Giants is the cap space opened up, it would allow Sandoval to be extended and with Stanton due after next season for an extension it makes sense.  I would think more than just picks would be easily acquired for Ryu.

Like Chris I'm on the fence.

[chrisetc21]

I guess a couple thoughts come to mind most here.  First, I think the odds are incredibly low that the careers of those draft picks put together will ever amount to what Ryu and Lincecum are right now.  Second, I think if the Giants advertised those players for trade on their trade block they'd get a much getter return on those players. Third, I know this is a piggyback type trade off of the trade I just made with the Giants.  Having said that, are Ryu and Lincecum commensurate with the three picks involved in that trade?  I would say no chance that's appropriate value.  I would use my own McCutchen trade as comparison.  That was three starters for Yelich, three 1sts, three 2nds, three 3rds, and three 5ths.  So considering all of that and I'd have to veto.

 :veto:

[Maydab23]

I hate trying to justify trades and if the league says veto then that's fine. Rules are rules, I will try to rework the trade if Giants are open to it. That said a few things don't add up and i owe it to the trade to offer further explanation. On a side note, I would like it if more people participated though because as of now there is 1 vote on this trade.

1. Both of you are implying that Lincecum is good value. At 8.2M I beg to differ. His best case scenario is late inning bullpen. The more likely is another season of bad starter and/or long relief. For 8.2M I can get a similar if not better player(s) in FA. Therefore why give up anything of value for him in trade? I wouldn't claim him if he was released. Not at 8.2M.

2. I don't see how it relates to your McCutchen trade. That was a trade involving 5 teams, 43 players, dozens of draft picks, intl. signing money and cap money. It was almost vetoed simply for the sake of being absurdly complex for the commish at the time. This is simply picks for 2 players
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114388.0

The trade that was approved between myself and the White Sox yesterday seems like a better comparison. I gave up a 4th, 5th and 6th for Addison Reed and Tyler Flowers. Reed and Flowers scored a combined 618 pts last year compared to 758 for Lincecum and Ryu. However, Reed/Flowers will cost 1.43M next year compared to 15.2M for Lincecum/Ryu. Also Reed/Flowers is under control for combined 6 seasons compared to 4 for Lincecum/Ryu.
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=187647.msg888435#new

Not to mention the Giants have a salary cap crunch and this provides relief by dropping 15.2M and creating roster spots to use by calling up cheaper comparable players like DeGrom(which they just did) while filling an empty minor league system.

If Lincecum and Ryu were cheap arb eligible players then yeah lopsided. But this trade is about the money.

[Jss0062]

I approve for reasons of making cap space, though I feel Ryu is a ridiculous steal for $7M a year.

[Brian]

The reason im ,akeing trade is for cap space im looking at next year also right come next year ill probably only have 6m dollors to sign 16 players which include free agents on my team. If i had payroll of 200m then i wouldnt not trade ryu but thats not the case im looking at it a different way. Yes ryu is a hell of a player but if i can save 15m and not morgage my whole team because of i cant get the cap space to sign my players i will dovwhat what ever it takes to keep a bunch of players over 2 players makeing 15m. I took over a team that a gm over spent on player contracts and im trying to keep my core players and bee compeitive. If i dont somehow figure how to cut payroll this year come next season ilp probably lose alot of games and u all will think im tanking it

[chrisetc21]

I hate trying to justify trades and if the league says veto then that's fine. Rules are rules, I will try to rework the trade if Giants are open to it. That said a few things don't add up and i owe it to the trade to offer further explanation. On a side note, I would like it if more people participated though because as of now there is 1 vote on this trade.

1. Both of you are implying that Lincecum is good value. At 8.2M I beg to differ. His best case scenario is late inning bullpen. The more likely is another season of bad starter and/or long relief. For 8.2M I can get a similar if not better player(s) in FA. Therefore why give up anything of value for him in trade? I wouldn't claim him if he was released. Not at 8.2M.

2. I don't see how it relates to your McCutchen trade. That was a trade involving 5 teams, 43 players, dozens of draft picks, intl. signing money and cap money. It was almost vetoed simply for the sake of being absurdly complex for the commish at the time. This is simply picks for 2 players
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114388.0

The trade that was approved between myself and the White Sox yesterday seems like a better comparison. I gave up a 4th, 5th and 6th for Addison Reed and Tyler Flowers. Reed and Flowers scored a combined 618 pts last year compared to 758 for Lincecum and Ryu. However, Reed/Flowers will cost 1.43M next year compared to 15.2M for Lincecum/Ryu. Also Reed/Flowers is under control for combined 6 seasons compared to 4 for Lincecum/Ryu.
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=187647.msg888435#new

Not to mention the Giants have a salary cap crunch and this provides relief by dropping 15.2M and creating roster spots to use by calling up cheaper comparable players like DeGrom(which they just did) while filling an empty minor league system.

If Lincecum and Ryu were cheap arb eligible players then yeah lopsided. But this trade is about the money.

First, the McCutchen trade was complicated however what I gave up and what I received is very easy to determine which was the point of my comparison.  Second, the Flowers/Reed trade was insane value and I would have vetoed if it if not for two very significant differences with your current trade.  The White Sox had listed Flowers and Reed on their trade block for months and they've been actively trying to trade them for a very long time.  That's hardly the case with the Giants.  The White Sox are also in a full rebuild so there's value in trading those players even if they don't get good value in return.  The Giants have plenty of time to post those players on their trade block and get better value in return. 

I don't think anyone can reasonably claim that 4th, 5th, and 6th round draft picks are equitable value for two major league starters making $400k per. 

[ldsjayhawk]

Reed and Flowers scored a combined 618 pts last year compared to 758 for Lincecum and Ryu.

Is this the new system or the old?  Fantrax shows almost 1000.  Is that the old system?