Discussion: FNHL Goalie Stats

[PigsRule]

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I am not a fan of this leagues scoring and can't understand why goalies are worth twice as much as players. Having said that, I trade one to try and field a full line up. I appreciate BB talking Coliacivo to make the deal official.

Best of luck

Ripper

Thought this would be a good discussion because I believe it's come up a few times since I've been around.

I think every league has it's set-up quarks and in FNHL, it's goalies and everything related.

Personally, in a 30-team league starting 2 goalies is/was nuts especially in a free league (which this was originally)... now mix in the x2 - x3 multiplier for goalie stats vs skaters and its a formula for a polarized league... that's what was happening and getting bad around here.

So we've intro'ed some revisions to the setup to level the playing field and keep things competitive and ensure teams can't fall into a blackhole they can't re-build their team from.

* reduce starting G from 2 to 1 daily (started this season)
* boost G extension values to sync better with their performance value relative to league scoring (starting April 14, 2014 0h01 ET)
* minimum contract value for G will be $1.0m (also effective April 14, 2014)

The G stats being higher... well, kind of reflects the reality of good goalies on teams... they make or break most teams so boost their scoring in Fantasy play, but then we had to get the contract values caught up to force teams to make tough choices for their roster (keep a $8 million starting goalie or add 2-5 skaters who can accumulate more points nightly for the same cost ... :PHI-NHL: :MIN-NHL: :WAS-NHL: have to make that decision and soon :TBL: + :DAL-NHL: will too!)

[ripper]

I'm new so this is just an outsiders perspective.

I would like to see Star players have a bit more value.

The top 21 scoring positions (at the time I am writing this) are goalies.

Steve mason is ahead of Ovechkin.

Crosby is 25 and Stamkos is 27.

So maybe the answer is points scored need to be increased?

[papps]

I agree.  I think scoring for skaters is too low.  Goalies score big and forwards and defense don't score much.  I think this should be adjusted.

[PigsRule]

I'm new so this is just an outsiders perspective.

I would like to see Star players have a bit more value.

The top 21 scoring positions (at the time I am writing this) are goalies.

Steve mason is ahead of Ovechkin.

Crosby is 25 and Stamkos is 27.

So maybe the answer is points scored need to be increased?

I think like anything, there's a point where we draw the line + define the rules.
in FNHL, when it was setup ... the original owners and commish (not me) decided goalies stats should outweigh other positions... by a country mile.

to your point Ripper, if we did boost stats for certain skaters... it would impact other skater positions.
otherwise, we'd have to have special position specific stats for diff skaters.
Fantrax allows for it.

Let's say Crosby/Centers score points like a goalie next season... so instead of 25pts he'd have 50pts (all things being equal).
* we could phase that in over 1-2yrs... like we did with goalie extensions (took 2yrs)
* then you'd have to up their contract values too to tied back salary to scoring.

IMO, wouldn't we end up making every position weighted equally and turn the league into a standard Yahoo! fantasy pool? at least that's what I think would happen after a few yrs.

it's a discussion... let's hear it ppl.

[PigsRule]

I agree.  I think scoring for skaters is too low.  Goalies score big and forwards and defense don't score much.  I think this should be adjusted.

like my last line above, i think this eventually leads to all positions and contracts getting scored + paid the same ... then it's linear and removes most of the challenge from building + fielding a line-up.

again, that's just my opinion... but I have to say any good league needs rules to be somewhat skewed one way or another to make things interesting and challenging to play and learn. otherwise it's like non-cap/contract straightfwd Yahoo league.

let's hear it ppl. more feedback is good.

[snugerud]

i kind of like the linear setup myself, although I am also a big supporter of counting blocked shots, bonuses for SHP and PPP, FOW/FOL  (more obscure stats) so that players that are known for their defensive attributes or are specialists have a value.  Those work better in head to head, category based leagues as opposed to points. Probably my biggest complaint with Fantrax is lack of an option for category, head to head.  I find points based always comes back to the one single denominator , how many points do they score me a night, I dont have to worry about breaking my team into face off specialist, defensive specialist, and offensive guys to balance a roster. I like that worry since I find it more challenging and actually creates more trade opportunities.

That being said, I am 100% against any changes to scoring.  I think the goalie situation has worked itself out nicely now that we can only start one and with the increase to cost on the extension value for next year it will impact it even more.  If you increase skater production you probably shouldn't have increased the goalie extension costs.  Goalies would go from commodity to liability in a few short years.

I think scoring of players is one area you never touch, especially in a well established league.   
and yes, I realize in the past I was for changing goalie stats but I have since seen the error's in my ways of young Jared

[snugerud]

and dont take that post as I am a fan of the goalie scoring in the league.  Pigs of all people knows that I was one of the biggest vocal opponents of it when I started out here and was all for changing from 2 goalie starts a night to one and did the number crunching for the new extension values. 

The goalie situation was 10times worse when I started out considering the top goalie extension cost was 6.4 million and teams could start 2 goalies and they easily scored more than Crosby.  Right now you still need to give up your left nut for a good starting goalie, but then you had to give them both your nuts along with your 3 top players and still was a questionable deal.

[PsychoticPondGoons]

Right now you still need to give up your left nut for a good starting goalie, but then you had to give them both your nuts along with your 3 top players and still was a questionable deal.

You might own the wrong types of goalies Snug. I'm pretty sure we pay our players cash. Damn you're a real dedicated owner. LOL

The goalie situation was "nuts" up til this yr. Now there are more goalies being moved then ever before from what I can see. Last yr you'd have to give up the core of your team and your top prospects to land one. This yr you just have to place your left nut on a silver platter like Snug said.

The extension values getting bumped up also balances things out.

But to Snug's pt it would be cool to see Block Shots and Face offs Won/Lost scored. Freak/Pigs what do you guys think man? Blocked Shots would up the value on blueliners and 3rd/4th line forwards.

[PigsRule]

I think some league around here still start 2 goalies and have over 16 teams. I don't get it personally but thats their setup and sometimes it works. sometimes it takes a few seasons to resolve with new rules, extension value changes.

i do think FNHL has straightened out the matter of level playing field with Goalies and their value relative to salary.

Goalie extensions are due to increase April 14, 2014... it'll be a noticeable bump up!

Actually, the differences in contract values for various positions is interesting here in FNHL now... and i think it'll force teams to think long and hard about resigning/keeping players versus taking a chance on Free Agency and clearing cap for FA bidding. should make for an interesting Off-season in 2014. :toast:

[PsychoticPondGoons]

I know when I resigned Carey Price I could've locked him up for another year but for an extra 2m a year or an extra 8m over four yrs. But I didn't and figured I could get more production out of that extra 2m I was going to save by signing a good FA skater or trading for one. Price's next contract will go from under 4m to close to 10m. Some tough choices ahead but not for another 2 yrs. LOL