Dynasty NHL

Home :: Fantrax :: Rules :: Transactions :: History



::
::

Author Topic: Best Available GOAT - Cross posted with ProDNHL  (Read 2166 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GypsieDeathBringer

  • League Moderator
  • MVP
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 3242
  • Bonus inPoints: 0
    • :DAL:
    • :ORL:
    • :PIT-NHL:
    • :Pittsburgh:
    • :blank:
    • View Profile
Best Available GOAT - Cross posted with ProDNHL
« on: January 30, 2023, 01:25:23 PM »
The following will be long and probably interest only 1 person.  But, instead of putting my time into doing my power rankings I've been doing some stat stuff instead.  I had this idea to figure out who was the best hockey player ever and I hated seeing how other people tried to compare players across eras.  To me there is only one way to do it.

I started with looking at each NHL year individually starting in 1967.  I don't count records or stats that involve less than 10 teams. Why compare Bobby Orr directly to Lidstrom?  Why not compare Bobby Orr to his peers then Lidstrom to his. Then compare that comparison!  Using 1967 as an example I got the stats for every player.  Found the average amount of games played for the league.  Deleted all the players that did not play equal to or more than that average because, in my opinion, the greatest skill a player can have is availability. Wayne Gretzky is great, but if he only plays 30 games in a season it isn't very great.  Now that we have that new subset I found the average goals scored by those players, as well as the average amount of assists, and the average "True +/-".  The True +/- is regular +/- with PP points added to it.  This gives a truer representation of a players impact on the ice.  PP time is just as important as 5v5 time.  Then with each of those averages I compared every player against it.  For example the average goals scored by players playing more than the average amount of games in 1967 was 12.88.  If a player scored 30 goals they would get a factor 2.33.  They scored 2.33 times the average player.  This was done for every player across every year.  Then I added up all those factors for each player to find out who had the best career.

The very best available GOAT was Jaromir Jagr!  Gretzky was a close 2nd.

The best goal scoring year ever was Brett Hull in 90-91 where he scored 6.5 times more than the average

Greatest assist season was Gretzky's 85-86 season where he dished 6.2 times more than the average

The most impactful on ice presence for a year was Bobby Orr in 70-71 where he was on the ice for 38 times more goals for than against compared to the average

If you were to pick any one player from any one year to have the greatest season it would be Mario Lemieux.  His average year was better than everyone else.  Injuries didn't allow him to have the best career though.

I am supper happy with the results.  It is a great mix of players across all eras.  It really seems to be a good way to compare players.  In my opinion you don't need Corsi or PDO or any other fancy stat to compare what players did.  A player either scored the goal or didn't.  They either assisted or didn't.  They were either a positive influence on the ice or they weren't.  All other stats should be used as predictive of future success, but the real stats for GOATs are the ones that actually won and lost games.

If you are bored and want to noodle around in the stats here is a link.  You are better off downloading it and using Excel.  Google sheets does not like what I did.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KDPzzRaxCuj4K6XvSNS7R8gDZ_y_JSHi/edit?usp=share_link&ouid=115945690041520278334&rtpof=true&sd=true

Also, if you want to tell me how wrong I am in my process, please do.  I am here for that as well.
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
2011-12 Dynasty NHL Champion :CAR-NHL:
[Dynasty NHL :PIT-NHL:]
[ProFSL Dynasty Hockey :PIT-NHL:]

Offline snugerud

  • League Moderator
  • MVP
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 4392
  • Bonus inPoints: 0
  • I am the ghost of fantasy hockey past
    • :NE:
    • :TOR-NBA:
    • :PIT-NHL:
    • :Blank:
    • View Profile
Re: Best Available GOAT - Cross posted with ProDNHL
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2023, 04:48:31 PM »
i love how you totally geek out on things to an obsessive degree.  ha ha.  ( Its Ok I do it too.  If I have to buy anything that is out of the ordinary it takes me weeks if not months.  One does not just walk into a store a buy a new pair of skates.... I must obsessively pour over all aspects , reviews pricing to quality, skate setup, materials ,,, you get the drift)
funny
0
like
1
dislike
0
No reactions
Members reacted like:
SlackJack,
No reactions
Bro-Lo El Cunado

Offline Rob

  • League Moderator
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 19209
  • Bonus inPoints: 3
    • :NE:
    • :BOS-NBA:
    • :BOS-NHL:
    • :NewHampshire:
    • :NER:
    • :BOS:
    • View Profile
Re: Best Available GOAT - Cross posted with ProDNHL
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2023, 09:36:08 AM »
Who was dramatically better than anyone that played around them their entire career?  Jagr isn't the answer.  I love him, but....  It's Bobby Orr.  Bobby Orr is the GOAT.  If it wasn't for losing his knees early in his career this wouldn't even be a conversation!

I have more, but just getting back from vacation and piled up with work and emails. 
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

Offline GypsieDeathBringer

  • League Moderator
  • MVP
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 3242
  • Bonus inPoints: 0
    • :DAL:
    • :ORL:
    • :PIT-NHL:
    • :Pittsburgh:
    • :blank:
    • View Profile
Re: Best Available GOAT - Cross posted with ProDNHL
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2023, 11:02:29 AM »
Great question.... and I think that would have to add another measure to account for this.  I will look into it.
funny
0
like
0
dislike
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
2011-12 Dynasty NHL Champion :CAR-NHL:
[Dynasty NHL :PIT-NHL:]
[ProFSL Dynasty Hockey :PIT-NHL:]

 

Forum Search


Quick Profile

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Chat Room

Refresh History
  • BayAreaBallers: wasnt gonna pass both up
    Today at 09:23:18 PM
  • Braves155: Clippers are listed 2x
    Today at 09:24:15 PM
  • Braves155: Brooklyn is missing
    Today at 09:26:33 PM
  • Daddy: Thanks guys, youre the best. But...im updating the sheet in real time, hand typed and adding information as I go.
    Today at 09:52:20 PM
  • Daddy: I appreciate all of your assistance. :rofl:
    Today at 09:52:43 PM
  • Daddy: Daddy: Im going to post it Today at 08:01:14 PM Daddy: But I will be editing it with team information on the fly Today at 08:01:32 PM
    Today at 09:53:51 PM
  • Daddy: Give me a few and I will link the final version, I havent looked at the replies yet.
    Today at 09:58:09 PM
  • Daddy: I was looking up G League team names which I never knew all 30 before today :rofl:
    Today at 09:58:55 PM
  • Daddy: There is actually more than 30. Expansion must be on the horizon.
    Today at 09:59:49 PM
  • Daddy: Isnt the NBA going back to Seattle?
    Today at 10:00:20 PM
  • IndianaBuc: That would be awesome
    Today at 10:02:32 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: i dunno abt that
    Today at 10:15:22 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: but an expansion is deff up there
    Today at 10:15:33 PM
  • Daddy: Seattle is getting the Sonics back I think
    Today at 10:16:02 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: [link]
    Today at 10:16:14 PM
  • Daddy: I think two more teams are coming 32 teams total
    Today at 10:16:26 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: that link ^ talks abt expansion
    Today at 10:16:49 PM
  • Daddy: Yeah Vegas is getting one
    Today at 10:17:01 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: not anytime soon
    Today at 10:17:01 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: prolly in another 3 4 yrs
    Today at 10:17:16 PM
  • Daddy: Vegas is getting everything by the time its said and done.
    Today at 10:17:23 PM
  • Daddy: If there is demand we will expand ourselves. To hell with waiting for the NBA. We can put franchises in Vegas & Seattle and have a 32 team league.
    Today at 10:18:34 PM
  • Daddy: The Vegas GM can pick his own team name
    Today at 10:18:50 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: its already getting an mlb team now
    Today at 10:18:50 PM
  • Daddy: So shall it be
    Today at 10:18:59 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: so thats 3/4 major sports
    Today at 10:19:00 PM
  • BayAreaBallers: mlb nhl and nfl
    Today at 10:19:04 PM
  • Daddy: Im opening up the Seattle Super Sonics! Lol...we bout to shake Crap up.
    Today at 10:19:51 PM
  • Daddy: The Vegas Powerballs? We need to come up with something that makes the city of Vegas say hmmmm. I bet we can.
    Today at 10:22:11 PM
  • Daddy: The Las Vegas Ignite (i dig this)
    Today at 10:30:51 PM
  • Brent: The Las Vegas Gamblers
    Today at 10:49:05 PM
  • STLBlues91: If  someone wants chicago I dont mind taking over Las Vegas as well
    Today at 10:49:06 PM
  • Daddy: Its going to be fun having the two expansion teams. It will also balance out the league a bit more
    Today at 11:04:43 PM
  • Daddy: @Brent i dig it
    Today at 11:05:39 PM
  • Daddy: Whoever takes over that expansion gets to name the team.
    Today at 11:07:01 PM
  • Daddy: Probably four years before the actual NBA does it. To hell with 2028.
    Today at 11:07:53 PM
  • Braves155: Las Vegas Gold Diggers
    Today at 11:08:26 PM
  • Daddy: I dig it
    Today at 11:10:25 PM
  • Bigdon: I am chicago right
    Today at 11:29:29 PM
  • Daddy: Sign up Bigdon. Chicago is gone already.
    Today at 11:36:50 PM
  • Daddy: NBA LIVE [link] Pre-reserved sign up
    Today at 11:37:29 PM
  • STLBlues91: Ill switch for Vegas if he wants the bulls
    Today at 11:39:17 PM
  • Daddy: Sounds good
    Today at 11:43:59 PM
  • Daddy: I knew Vegas would be tempting :rofl:
    Today at 11:44:25 PM
  • Daddy: He still needs to select NCAA
    Today at 11:44:40 PM
  • Daddy: You get to name them sir. NBA LIVE will start with an expansion draft, followed by the rookie draft.
    Today at 11:45:39 PM
  • Daddy: Vegas will get the #1 pick :toast:
    Today at 11:46:07 PM
  • Daddy: Super Sonics #2 pick (insert eye emoji)
    Today at 11:46:44 PM
  • Daddy: All subject to trade before the draft of course.
    Today at 11:47:03 PM
  • Brent: With an expansion draft, does that mean we select x number of players on our roster to protect?
    Today at 11:47:51 PM