Mets/Twins Trade

[Lindner]

My understanding of the matter is that Minnesota is not attempting to may a big push in free agency.  They want to build this team through the farm system in the hopes of competing in about 2 seasons.  Therefore, they are willing to take bad contracts and max out their payroll in exchange for prospects that can pay dividends down the road.  The strategy makes sense because when they are willing to shoulder the additional salaries, the other teams are willing to give up more premium prospects.  Then, all of the contracts go away in a season or two and Minnesota is left with a minimum payroll and a stockpile of young talent bordering on Major League ready.

This is definitely why I did this deal. In 2-3 years, I'll have no bad contracts and a stockpile of high end talent.

Also, I think you guys are undervaluing Arcia.  He is the #3 prospect on my team.  He is projected to hit for big power.  

I think you are also undervaluing the salary dump. Think about what kind of free agent someone could sign for $16M/year.

Slowey actually has some upside, as well.  Slowey was a middle of the rotation guy on a Twins team that made the playoffs almost every year.  He had spurts where he was very good.  People seem to throw him under the bus because he was injured for one season.

It might make more sense for you guys if I line it up like this:

NY Gives:
B+ Pitching Prospect
B-  Pitching Prospect

MN Gives:
B  Outfield Prospect
$17.2M in 2012 Cap Relief
$16M in 2013 Cap Relief
A #4 Pitcher
A MI/OFer going into his second season that hasn't done much yet

[Daniel]

Well, I recall one of my first trades in FGM being very similar to this one. I traded away Aaron Hill and his beautiful team friendly contract after his monstruous season along with Vernon Wells, Overbay, Downs and some low draft picks for Phil Coke, Sam Fuld and a couple of higher draft picks. It ended up being a brilliant deal. With the money I cleared from all those contracts I was able to sign many top FAs. Both Aaron Hill and Vernon Wells sucked the next year, Phil Coke became a starter and I was able to trade him away for good value and I used my extra picks to draft Sean Coyle and Derek Dietrich. My team went to the playoffs the following year and to the WS the year after. Aaron Hill has been in almost every team in the league afterwards and never fetching any real value in those trades.. At the moment it seemed like a steal for the other team, but if you look at the trade now, two years later, it was a steal in my favor.

My point is, you never know what will happen with these players. When you are trading prospects and cap room it is very difficult to weigh their value. Bay is a huge bust with a hideous contract, Carrasco is a terrible reliever and overpayed in my opinion and I would had placed him on waivers if I had not traded him *prefer the trade as there is no risk of a cap hit. Plouffe and Slowey are two players I like and even though they are not particularly valuable, they are useful. Depth is key in this league from what I take from the rules. Arcia is young and in development, but I have seen the kid play and he is for real. All the scouts seem to agree with me by the way, so if you only read stats and do not care about the intangibles, that is your way of managing, but not mine.

Harvey is indeed a very good prospect, who certainly projects as a #2 starter. But, Mets prospects have a tendency to be misused in real life and I would rather let someone else take that risk than take it myself. Remember Mejia and Martinez?

[chicubs33]

I'm not questioning why the Twins are doing this deal outside of the money, IMO they're getting the muh better deal...the explanations given at first dont make sense. I wont be voting for this trade...just my opinion.

[Lindner]

That's alright.  Do some research on Arcia though.  The more you learn, the more you will realize that the gap between him and Harvey, value-wise, isn't as big as you probably think.

I also think you are underestimating value of the salary dump.  Think about what New York could do with the cash...
Would you be okay with the trade if it looked like this?:


P - Matt Harvey
OF - Jason Bay
P - D.J. Carrasco
P - Matthew Purke

for

SS - Jose Reyes
OF - Oswaldo Arcia
P - Kevin Slowey
MI/OF - Trevor Plouffe


The money saved on Bay is almost the same amount of cash Jose Reyes is getting paid by the Miami Marlins.

Jose Reyes signed for $17M/year
Jason Bay is on contract for $16M/year

[chicubs33]

No further research necessary...my opinion wont change on the trade. And after all the complaining over the recent Cubs/Rays trade im curious to see how this one goes.

[BrewCrew]

I also think you are underestimating value of the salary dump.  Think about what New York could do with the cash...
Would you be okay with the trade if it looked like this?:


P - Matt Harvey
OF - Jason Bay
P - D.J. Carrasco
P - Matthew Purke

for

SS - Jose Reyes
OF - Oswaldo Arcia
P - Kevin Slowey
MI/OF - Trevor Plouffe

Exactly what I was saying, you need to look at how much cap it's opening up and what you can do with it.

I don't think I have yet, but I approve.

[chicubs33]

Jesus christ how many times do i have to say i get the cap relief part...im not 8yrs old, i understand. Go look at the Cubs/Marlins trade and how much salary i got rid of but i still got quality players back. The twins said they're rebuilding and then take on a huge contract, this trade is just all backwards to me.

[Lindner]

Jesus christ how many times do i have to say i get the cap relief part...im not 8yrs old, i understand. Go look at the Cubs/Marlins trade and how much salary i got rid of but i still got quality players back. The twins said they're rebuilding and then take on a huge contract, this trade is just all backwards to me.

Settle down bro....

Besides, you were only getting $4.7M in relief while the Mets are getting get $16M/year.  That's a pretty big gap, in my opinion.

Also, if you read the prior posts, you would see why this trade isn't backwards for me.  Either way, I don't care if you don't approve the trade.  You're the only one at this point.

Thanks for your input though!  It makes for good conversation  :toast:

[chicubs33]

Where do you get $4.7M at? Looks to me like i saved over $30M plus got my future 1B and a solid SP back.

[Lindner]

Woops.  I was looking at the Cubs/Rays trade.