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ProFSL Front Office => Armchair: Armchair Fantasy Baseball: Transactions => Armchair => MLB DYNASTY GM HOME => Armchair: Armchair Fantasy Baseball: Completed Transactions => Topic started by: limeygreen on November 29, 2013, 05:34:38 PM
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COL trades
Elvis Andrus
Devin Mesoraco
NYY trades
Shane Greene
Slade Heathcott
9th rd draft pick 2013
4th and 8th rd draft picks 2014
As highlighted before the aim is to remove Andrus from my payroll asap. In order for trade to progress I am ok for Mesoraco to exit (as I have options at C) and in return, for 2 player package, I pick up 2 recognised prospects (1 batter and 1 pitcher) plus 3 useful draft picks.
A trade that allows Rockies to manage salary issues while providing a decent and balanced return.
Thanks to Yankees owner for swift negotiations.
Cheers
Chris
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I think you are tremendously overvaluing these draft picks. Andrus by himself is again worth more than this entire deal. He's a top 5 shortstop! Mesoraco is a starting catcher! No way is this even remotely close to a decent return for that kind of talent. Sorry.
:veto:
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I think you are tremendously overvaluing these draft picks. Andrus by himself is again worth more than this entire deal. He's a top 5 shortstop! Mesoraco is a starting catcher! No way is this even remotely close to a decent return for that kind of talent. Sorry.
:veto:
To be a pedant Andrus, I think, was only the 12th highest SS in respect of PPG last season (in this respective league) and I am willing to let him go to help me (to bang this drum again) manage the bigger issue of my salary cap (check out my team sheet and you will see that I am above my salary cap! Mesaraco is a good player but (again in respect of PPG) i have viable other options in Castro and Ross.
I really do respect your opinion (you blatantly know your stuff) but I do think it can cloud your judgement in respect to the pragmatic needs of clubs attempting to trade,
Saying that I wait to see what other owners say.
Cheers
Chris
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The Yankees confirm this deal. For obvious reasons I need a catcher and Colorado has a plethora of them. Mesoraco has never been a starting catcher either Chris. Now I won't argue that he should have been but he want and has never hit when he has had the opportunity. And Andrus was the 12th best ss in 12 and 13. I didn't see a vote from you either Chris.
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The Yankees confirm this deal. For obvious reasons I need a catcher and Colorado has a plethora of them. Mesoraco has never been a starting catcher either Chris. Now I won't argue that he should have been but he want and has never hit when he has had the opportunity. And Andrus was the 12th best ss in 12 and 13. I didn't see a vote from you either Chris.
Here's the Cincy depth chart. Mesoraco, starter.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/depth/_/name/cin/cincinnati-reds
Mesoraco last season was the leading point scorer for all Cincy catchers and played in 103 games last year, more than any other Cincy catcher. He rated 29th overall in the league in a league with 30 teams and that sounds like starter caliber to me.
Andrus was the 5th rated shortstop this year and the 6th rated shortstop last year. Total points are what matters in a total points league.
You shouldn't misrepresent this trade. I feel my opinion is based in pretty sound logic and is well educated but let the league decide and good luck to you.
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I live in Cincy and follow the Reds religiously. The only reason Meso started was due to hanigans injury. Like I said he will start this year but he has never hit consistently to deserve to be a starter.
Andrus wound up being the 12 ranked ss in 12 and 13. If we are using rankings here then why don't we use rankings for salaries?
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I live in Cincy and follow the Reds religiously. The only reason Meso started was due to hanigans injury. Like I said he will start this year but he has never hit consistently to deserve to be a starter.
Andrus wound up being the 12 ranked ss in 12 and 13. If we are using rankings here then why don't we use rankings for salaries?
Mesoraco played more games and scored more points than any other Cincy catcher and I've shown he's #1 on the depth chart. Andrus was not 12th or 13th in either year in total points. Anyone with FanTrax can verify these things on their own.
I'm certain we use rankings for salaries post arbitration and they're not determined by PPG.
I'm comfortable with my vote. I feel it's well educated and quite sound but ultimately the league decides so if it's approved then more power to you.
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Chris,
I get that you have a little power or say here and that is all fine and dandy but from fantrax is where I got that number. Andrus was the 12th ranked mi for the last 2 years. Verified
I'm not sure how many games Hanigan missed so yeah Golem may have the most points but that is a moot point really. Hanigans missed time and Corky Miller. Really?
I stand by my statements as well.
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Phillies approve. Solid trade, Andrus' value is primarily in durability, defense, and baserunning, which this league currently undervalues which limits his value.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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Chris,
I get that you have a little power or say here and that is all fine and dandy but from fantrax is where I got that number. Andrus was the 12th ranked mi for the last 2 years. Verified
I'm not sure how many games Hanigan missed so yeah Golem may have the most points but that is a moot point really. Hanigans missed time and Corky Miller. Really?
I stand by my statements as well.
MI and SS are two different things. He is a top 5 SS, but MI includes 2B.
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Chris,
I get that you have a little power or say here and that is all fine and dandy but from fantrax is where I got that number. Andrus was the 12th ranked mi for the last 2 years. Verified
I'm not sure how many games Hanigan missed so yeah Golem may have the most points but that is a moot point really. Hanigans missed time and Corky Miller. Really?
I stand by my statements as well.
We all have the same say and power here, everyone can make up their own mind but you can't have your own facts.
This is what you said in your own words. You said it twice.
And Andrus was the 12th best ss in 12 and 13.
Andrus wound up being the 12 ranked ss in 12 and 13.
And it's not true. Verified not true.
You also said this.
Mesoraco has never been a starting catcher either Chris.
Again, verified not true.
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To (mis)quote Twain this is very much a case of "lies, dam lies and statistics!!"
As noted before Andrus was rated 12th last season, albeit in PGG,- though overall points moves him to 7th (which however may well have been lower (10th) had not Ramirez, Reys and Cabrera all had shortened regular seasons). Either way he is currently not a top 5 SS …. In respect of Mesoraco - he would have been a helpful asset, however as noted before I have other options (Jason Castro, who outscored him in both total points and PPG in 2013) and his value for the 2014 season is surely dented by the Reds signing of Pena?
Hope this helps the debate (naturally I would argue that this is a fair deal and I think the numbers help back that up).
At some point I may well post something on the main board on the issue of trades/vetoes - I really think we need a discussion around what is a fair and rigorous process. My (limited) experience so far indicates that trades are thrown out for no other reason than other owners subjective views on what players are/should be, which to me does sometime differ from reality/fails to take into account what roster issues etc the trading clubs are seeking to address.. just a thought
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Mesoraco has never earned the full time catchers gig. He started due to injuries. And sorry is misspoke about Andrus ranking. I was looking at MI because of extensions. I had never looked up where he ranked on the ss list.
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To (mis)quote Twain this is very much a case of "lies, dam lies and statistics!!"
As noted before Andrus was rated 12th last season, albeit in PGG,- though overall points moves him to 5th (which however may well have been lower (8th) had not Ramirez, Reys and Cabrera all had shortened regular seasons). Either way it comes with a question of whether he is a top 5 SS …. In respect of Mesoraco - he would have been a helpful asset, however as noted before I have other options (Jason Castro, who outscored him in both total points and PPG in 2013) and his value for the 2014 season is surely dented by the Reds signing of Pena?
Hope this helps the debate (naturally I would argue that this is a fair deal and I think the numbers help back that up).
At some point I may well post something on the main board on the issue of trades/vetoes - I really think we need a discussion around what is a fair and rigorous process. My (limited) experience so far indicates that trades are thrown out for no other reason than other owners subjective views on what players are/should be, which to me does sometime differ from reality/fails to take into account what roster issues etc the trading clubs are seeking to address.. just a thought
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I am going to veto this deal as well.
:veto:
Not sure who/where some get numbers but based on SS rankings for 2012 and 2013 Andrus ranks 7th in total points. 15th in both past years for MI.
With 30 starting SS and MI that puts him pretty high on the ability list with both consistency and value. Furthermore if we go back to 2011 he is again 15th at MI and 9th at SS.
You can analyze it anyway you want but you will get more for Andrus. This doesn't even include Mesoraco who may very we'll be the starter although that can be debated.
What can't be debated is Andrus value for consistency in the past 3 years. Not trying to hold him ransom or anything but we need to see a higher pick needing to move for a player of this calibre.
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Looking at this trade, I believe that the Yankees are clear winners. I would suggest that the Rockies look to the success of past draft picks in those slots and prospects and how often they end up being successful major leaguers. The return is pretty weak from a prospect perspective as well, but to me its not vetoable. The Yankees are getting only 1 year of Andrus before his salary greatly inflates and Mesoraco is just not a good hitting catcher. Close enough of a trade that I am okay with it. So, :iatp:.
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While, I myself would not make this trade, I will not veto this time around. There is no collusion, just one team that's in a tight spot with the salary cap and another team in the right place at the right time to take advantage of the situation. I reluctantly approve this deal.
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:iatp:
We can't forge all trades for every team. If both teams feel their teams are getting better, approve. You should get higher draft picks but you don't need me telling you what trades to accept/decline. Plus I don't know how many people you've tried to trade with, this might be the best trade request you've received.
If you still have catchers with playing time lying around, come over to the :NYM: clubhouse. We could definitely bribe you with some good scotch and take one off your hands.
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I'd just like to know when chrisetc21 is ever going to NOT veto a trade which he isn't involved in?
:iatp:
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I'd just like to know when chrisetc21 is ever going to NOT veto a trade which he isn't involved in?
:iatp:
I'd like to know when you're going to stop whining like a child but I'd like to help you out Fitzy so here are 17 trades in the last two months that passed without a veto.
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=121991.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=122082.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=122090.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=121192.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=120934.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=119468.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=119763.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=117937.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=116755.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=116244.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=116327.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=115889.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114852.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114815.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114539.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114040.0
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=114223.0
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The Rockies owner should probably hit me up. I like to give good value for proven Major League talent!
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There are definitely some dominating personalities here that seem to be running things. It is really a joke.
If you don't like the trade just veto it on whatever merits you like. Don't say anything about the GM cause it is really not called for. No one wants to do anything to intentionally hurt their franchise. At least I hope not.
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So where does this stand? I would like to be able to offer Andrus an extension.
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Since there was at a least one veto the clock moves to 72 hours instead of 48 hours from the time that both parties approved the deal.
:NYY: approved at 4:42pm MST on Nov. 29th which takes the 72 hour clock to today at 4:42pm MST.
The deal stands at....
5 Approvals
2 Vetos
71% approval and would pass at this point with no further votes.
But then again to quote you...
There are definitely some dominating personalities here that seem to be running things. It is really a joke.
If you don't like the trade just veto it on whatever merits you like. Don't say anything about the GM cause it is really not called for. No one wants to do anything to intentionally hurt their franchise. At least I hope not.
This is a complete joke and certain people are running things.
Yes, I am running it. Not like a dictatorship but as a democracy where everyone gets a vote. You can take over as commish, be my guest. The funnest part is dealing with people that don't like rules. It's awesome.
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I have no problems with rules at all.
I have been in 2 other sim dynasty leagues for years and have never had any issues at all.
There seems to be an antagonistic approach by some who just like to point fingers and that is fine if thats how you wanna live your life. I am really asking for people to attack the trade, not the GM.
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I have already posted on this so am not going to fully reheat previous comments. However agree with Daryl - some owners seem to want to use trade boards to overtly state their views on, and influence, how others run their teams.
To cut to the chase - im new, live in the UK and clearly know less about the game than the majority of you. However I should be free to choose the trades I wish to pursue, without any running commentary from others - ultimately my judge will be the standings at the end of next season.
Appreciate though that some comments are aimed at helping,
Anyway - game on
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While I am envious of the Yankees because I would have liked to make a deal like this I still approve of the deal.
It is not that outlandish of a deal and I can see where limeygreen is coming from. It is also obvious there is no collusion going on here.
:iatp:
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I have no problems with rules at all.
I have been in 2 other sim dynasty leagues for years and have never had any issues at all.
There seems to be an antagonistic approach by some who just like to point fingers and that is fine if thats how you wanna live your life. I am really asking for people to attack the trade, not the GM.
Who attacked you? Can you quote it?
It's your trade and your consistent misrepresentations of this trade which I've shown pretty conclusively. To whom should we point the finger for your posts?
As for my "power", you're free to takeover the draft at any time. I have no problem giving it up so step up and take it over. I'm sure Lando would be glad to set you up.
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I totally would but I am heavily involved in 2 other leagues and would not be able tondo this league justice. I am in 2 other sim dynasty leagues and they are very in depth. Couldn't do this if I wanted to.
I believe you thought I was misleading in my posts but it was because I stated ss when I meant MI. I did that because I was looking at the extension numbers.
Doesn't really matter now does it?
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http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Happier-Person
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And the above post is what I am getting at. The only reason to be in any sort of league like this is to have fun. Once the fun is gone, so will I.
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Agreed, I'm completely interested in a league like like this and am learning a lot in how it works. There's not much for helping out though. If I do something out of the rules, help me out instead of just telling me it's in the constitution (like trying to claim dudes that weren't offered arb).
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And the above post is what I am getting at. The only reason to be in any sort of league like this is to have fun. Once the fun is gone, so will I.
LOL All you've done is misrepresent your trade in here over and over and over again then you accused me presumably of being antagonistic, pointing fingers, abusing my power, and attacking you but you refused to quote any of these antagonistic finger pointing attacks and you declined to take on the power you've chastised me for having. So really, let's be straight on the facts. Facts are fun.
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All animosity aside, Hanigan is moving, looks like Mesoraco has the starting job!
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Fact is this trade has passed so let's move on.
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All animosity aside, Hanigan is moving, looks like Mesoraco has the starting job!
But will he have "earned" the starting job? Nobody knows the answer to that mysterious question.
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COL trades
Elvis Andrus
Devin Mesoraco
NYY trades
Shane Greene
Slade Heathcott
9th rd draft pick 2013
4th and 8th rd draft picks 2014
Trade passes
6 approvals
2 vetoes
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Fantrax Complete
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