Off-Season Discussions

[Billy]

Please post anything here that we want to look at discussing for this upcoming off-season. Below is a compiled list of planned discussion points.

Discuss
1. Move end of season week earlier.
2. Make resigns of 1 year automatically hit FA the next off-season.
3. Introduce 50% rule for extensions
4. Look into introducing a hard cap (which is the salary of your team with no regard to cash exchanges)

Rule going into place
1. Remember that last season it was agreed to put a rule into place about going over cap in future seasons. As soon as this off season starts, any roster moves will have to keep you under cap in future seasons as well as the current seasons.

[OUDAN]

Have the trade deadline at the allstar break.

[OUDAN]

We have to penalize for blatant tanking this is happening this year!

[DynastyDeacon]

We are a year into the new cash exchange rules and they are not having the intended impact so I would like to revisit the max 25% of total contract rule for a limit that actually works.

The intention of limits on cash exchanges was to attempt to prevent super teams from forming due to being able to circumvent the cap limits by way of cash exchanges. The current rules of a max 25% of total contract is obviously not working as San Antonio Spurs has an actual salary of $148.8m + $4.7m in available cap space for a total of $153.5m. That's $43.5m above the $110m cap! Orlando Magic has $144.7m in actual salary +$2.6m in available cap space for a total of $147.3m. That's $37.3m above the $110m cap! It's a major reason they are 1st and 4th in the standings.

I had a really good potential manager turn down an invite to the league a few months ago because he saw the salary of San Antonio and didn't want to be in a league where a team can be that far above the cap.

The max 25% rule is not curbing the development of super teams, but it is curbing the ability of teams to rebuild. When I had Bojan Bogdanovic on the Los Angeles Clippers team earlier this season it was very hard to deal him as he was on an expiring contract of $18.7m. I could therefore pay less on him in the current season ($4.6m) than if he was on a longer contract due to the max 25% total contract rule. The max 25% total contract rule makes it easier to deal a player on a long term contract than a player on a short term contract, which is the opposite of the real NBA. Wanting to be like the real NBA was one of the main reasons managers didn't want to lose the cash exchanges. Another example of the max 25% rule hurting rebuilding managers would be the Oklahoma City Thunder this season. They have a lot of slightly overpaid players on expiring contracts and are looking to rebuild. These are the exact type of players that are typically moved at the trade deadline in the real NBA and should be moved in this league. Unfortunately with the 25% max of total contract rule it is difficult to move these overpaid expiring contracts.

My proposal:

In speaking with Billy this would be easy to keep track of through a slight change in the setup of the spreadsheet at the top. The NBA has a soft cap and a hard cap. We would also have a soft cap and a hard cap.

1) Remove Max 25% of Total Contract Cash Exchange Limit
2) Implement Cap Change Rules: Soft Cap of $110m, Hard Cap of $125m

The soft cap would operate using the exact same formula currently used for the salary cap now (total salaries +/- cash exchanges + buyouts/releases). The hard cap is total contract value of active players + IR players without taking into account cash exchanges. It still includes the buyouts/releases. In the spreadsheet it would just be a separate column tracking the total salaries for a team next to the current cap for each year so it would be super simple to track. It would be even easier to track than the current salary cap as it doesn't include cash exchanges.

The hard cap allows teams to have players totaling a max of $125m so it still allows cash exchanges. This curbs the creation of super teams as they can go up to a total of $125m, not $150m+ (actually no max limit at all). It also allows teams such as Oklahoma City Thunder to sell off a lot of players at the trade deadline and rebuild as they can pay in full of any player at any salary as long as the team receiving them stays under the $110m soft cap and $125m hard cap. This gives rebuilding teams a major boost in trading those short term contracts of veterans, which is more realistic and like the real NBA.

Using Bojan Bogdanovic as an example and his expiring $18.7m contract he could be traded fully paid to a team that is looking to make a title run if they had no other cash exchanges and $3.7m left in available cap space ($106.3m). If Team A has $106.3m in total salary and no cash exchanges, buyouts or releases, they would be at $106.3m soft cap (total salaries +/- cash exchanges) and $106.3m hard cap (total salaries + $0 buyouts/releases). They could take on Bojan Bogdanovic $18.7m fully paid. This would keep them at $106.3m soft cap (what we have now as it adds Bojan $18.7m minus $18.7m paid) and increase them to $125m hard cap ($106.3m current salary + Bojan's $18.7m salary).

It also allows teams to pay fully on a max contract if they want to as long as the receiving team stays within the $110m soft cap and $115m hard cap. This allows rebuilding teams to quickly shift from rebuilding to competing. Miami Heat currently has $93.5m total soft cap (current cap calculation) and $54.8m hard cap ($43.2m total salary + $11.6m releases). If Miami or any other team has drafted a few good players and has a lot of draft picks and decides they want to start competing they could trade for two max contract guys fully paid and remain at $93.5m for the soft cap and increase to $114.8m for the hard cap. It still allows for a lot of very large cash exchanges, but doesn't allow a team to become a super team by going well above and beyond the total cap of $110m like we allow now. This would help Cleveland Cavaliers that want to switch from building a championship team to rebuilding as they can now pay more on their veterans if they find a team that has a lot of cap space as calculated by the hard cap that is looking to switch from rebuilding to competing (Los Angeles Clippers, Toronto Raptors, Miami Heat).

This proposal reigns in the extraordinary amounts teams can go over the salary cap, while adding a soft cap/hard cap like the real NBA and allowing rebuilding teams to better rebuild through cash exchanges. It increases league parity by making sure the cash exchanges from rebuilding teams aren't all going to a few teams. It is also easy to keep track of in the spreadsheet. The math is also a lot easier as well than max 25% of total contract and large cash exchanges are still possible and able to be completed.

[Interpaga]

We had a vote last year to limit the cash exchanges. It does not make much sense in our opinion to change this rule again after only one year and after all the members participated and approved by a majority the 25% limit. Anyway, we already supported last year a potential limit on total salaries for the benefit of the league, so we would be open to also introduce a reasonable hard cap to salaries if approved by the majority of the members. We just do not fully understand why insisting again on introducing this rule considering that 2023 playoff race is already definitely more challenging than last year and there are at least 6-7 very good teams that can win the title. Probably because new managers do not want to join the league because Spurs' total actual salaries are above the cap, sorry but this is pretty funny.

That being said, we would really appreciate if you avoid publicly speculating on the reasons why Spurs sit first in the ranking. It is not nice and fair to hear that 'a major reason' why we are first is that 'we circumvent the cap limit'. It is not the first time that you speculate on this and frankly it is starting to become quite annoying. You will say your one is not an accusation (because you perfectly know that we are operating well within the rules) but in any case it belittles once again our achievements. And just for information, Spurs is already under the new proposed hard cap next year with the same players of this season

[OUDAN]

I would not want to change the payments again myself. I have traded for multiple players with the 25% and changing that would affect trade value going forward compared to what we got in our deals.

[jimw]

We are a year into the new cash exchange rules and they are not having the intended impact so I would like to revisit the max 25% of total contract rule for a limit that actually works.

The intention of limits on cash exchanges was to attempt to prevent super teams from forming due to being able to circumvent the cap limits by way of cash exchanges. The current rules of a max 25% of total contract is obviously not working as San Antonio Spurs has an actual salary of $148.8m + $4.7m in available cap space for a total of $153.5m. That's $43.5m above the $110m cap! Orlando Magic has $144.7m in actual salary +$2.6m in available cap space for a total of $147.3m. That's $37.3m above the $110m cap! It's a major reason they are 1st and 4th in the standings.

I had a really good potential manager turn down an invite to the league a few months ago because he saw the salary of San Antonio and didn't want to be in a league where a team can be that far above the cap.

The max 25% rule is not curbing the development of super teams, but it is curbing the ability of teams to rebuild. When I had Bojan Bogdanovic on the Los Angeles Clippers team earlier this season it was very hard to deal him as he was on an expiring contract of $18.7m. I could therefore pay less on him in the current season ($4.6m) than if he was on a longer contract due to the max 25% total contract rule. The max 25% total contract rule makes it easier to deal a player on a long term contract than a player on a short term contract, which is the opposite of the real NBA. Wanting to be like the real NBA was one of the main reasons managers didn't want to lose the cash exchanges. Another example of the max 25% rule hurting rebuilding managers would be the Oklahoma City Thunder this season. They have a lot of slightly overpaid players on expiring contracts and are looking to rebuild. These are the exact type of players that are typically moved at the trade deadline in the real NBA and should be moved in this league. Unfortunately with the 25% max of total contract rule it is difficult to move these overpaid expiring contracts.

My proposal:

In speaking with Billy this would be easy to keep track of through a slight change in the setup of the spreadsheet at the top. The NBA has a soft cap and a hard cap. We would also have a soft cap and a hard cap.

1) Remove Max 25% of Total Contract Cash Exchange Limit
2) Implement Cap Change Rules: Soft Cap of $110m, Hard Cap of $125m

The soft cap would operate using the exact same formula currently used for the salary cap now (total salaries +/- cash exchanges + buyouts/releases). The hard cap is total contract value of active players + IR players without taking into account cash exchanges. It still includes the buyouts/releases. In the spreadsheet it would just be a separate column tracking the total salaries for a team next to the current cap for each year so it would be super simple to track. It would be even easier to track than the current salary cap as it doesn't include cash exchanges.

The hard cap allows teams to have players totaling a max of $125m so it still allows cash exchanges. This curbs the creation of super teams as they can go up to a total of $125m, not $150m+ (actually no max limit at all). It also allows teams such as Oklahoma City Thunder to sell off a lot of players at the trade deadline and rebuild as they can pay in full of any player at any salary as long as the team receiving them stays under the $110m soft cap and $125m hard cap. This gives rebuilding teams a major boost in trading those short term contracts of veterans, which is more realistic and like the real NBA.

Using Bojan Bogdanovic as an example and his expiring $18.7m contract he could be traded fully paid to a team that is looking to make a title run if they had no other cash exchanges and $3.7m left in available cap space ($106.3m). If Team A has $106.3m in total salary and no cash exchanges, buyouts or releases, they would be at $106.3m soft cap (total salaries +/- cash exchanges) and $106.3m hard cap (total salaries + $0 buyouts/releases). They could take on Bojan Bogdanovic $18.7m fully paid. This would keep them at $106.3m soft cap (what we have now as it adds Bojan $18.7m minus $18.7m paid) and increase them to $125m hard cap ($106.3m current salary + Bojan's $18.7m salary).

It also allows teams to pay fully on a max contract if they want to as long as the receiving team stays within the $110m soft cap and $115m hard cap. This allows rebuilding teams to quickly shift from rebuilding to competing. Miami Heat currently has $93.5m total soft cap (current cap calculation) and $54.8m hard cap ($43.2m total salary + $11.6m releases). If Miami or any other team has drafted a few good players and has a lot of draft picks and decides they want to start competing they could trade for two max contract guys fully paid and remain at $93.5m for the soft cap and increase to $114.8m for the hard cap. It still allows for a lot of very large cash exchanges, but doesn't allow a team to become a super team by going well above and beyond the total cap of $110m like we allow now. This would help Cleveland Cavaliers that want to switch from building a championship team to rebuilding as they can now pay more on their veterans if they find a team that has a lot of cap space as calculated by the hard cap that is looking to switch from rebuilding to competing (Los Angeles Clippers, Toronto Raptors, Miami Heat).

This proposal reigns in the extraordinary amounts teams can go over the salary cap, while adding a soft cap/hard cap like the real NBA and allowing rebuilding teams to better rebuild through cash exchanges. It increases league parity by making sure the cash exchanges from rebuilding teams aren't all going to a few teams. It is also easy to keep track of in the spreadsheet. The math is also a lot easier as well than max 25% of total contract and large cash exchanges are still possible and able to be completed.

I agree that the changes made last year did not help. It is possibly worse.  To be honest, I did not vote for the current rule because I could not see how it would improve and I am not surprised it didn't.  I like the idea of a soft cap/hard cap or anything that would make things more realistic.

I am sitting at 4th in the East, but I looked at the landscape of the league and realized that I could not compete and have not tried hard to make trades because what is the point. I like my team. I am waiting and trying to keep a good team/cap situation for when this system crashes and competition is more level.

[IndianaBuc]

It hasn?t even been a full year and we?re already talking about changing it again? Yes there are a couple teams over but it?s from previous years trades as well. The intent  was to make this league even and competitive not to try and tear down one team. You?ve got to give it more than 8 months for things to level out.

[DynastyDeacon]

It hasn?t even been a full year and we?re already talking about changing it again? Yes there are a couple teams over but it?s from previous years trades as well. The intent  was to make this league even and competitive not to try and tear down one team. You?ve got to give it more than 8 months for things to level out.

A few thoughts from this.

1) Orlando wasn't over the $110m cap until after the rule change. They are now at $147.3m in total players real salary plus free cap space. So the new rule doesn't work as intended. San Antonio was barely over for this year when the season started and is now at $153.5m. So if you are an active enough trader you can just keep going over astronomically each season. I didn't have Beal or Siakam that have $34m paid between them until after the 25% rule was implemented. The rule change obviously isn't working so I would rather change it now than wait another year or two for things to get worse.

2) I enjoy the league for the most part, but to be honest I don't want to have to make trades each season where others are paying for a large portion of my team in order to be competitive. Currently I have $34m paid between Beal and Siakam. That's not realistic and it isn't fun for me. Alternatively I enjoy rebuilding teams, but that's a challenge because of the 25% rule and I'm beginning to tire of rebuilding because in order to be truly competitive they have to have large cash exchanges as well eventually.

3) This isn't to single out one team. I'll single out my own team as well. The teams with the most negative cash exchanges obtained this season, where others pay for their players are #1, #2, and #4 in the standings. Interpaga can be offended by me insinuating that he is #1 in part because of cash exchanges and pretend there isn't a correlation between having a large part of your team paid for by others and being high in the standings. I'll be honest and admit it's a large part of why I'm at #2. It does take away from the accomplishment of winning for interpaga and myself even if it's within the rules. I'll be honest and admit that. Interpaga and everyone else can obviously see it's a large reason San Antonio is #1, I'm #2, and Orlando is #4. I want a more competitive landscape even if it hinders my team because it's what's best for the league. I've always pushed for what's best for the league in all my leagues, even if it hurts my own team.

4) I will say that San Antonio, New York Knicks (myself), and Orlando Magic are excellent managers, which is why we used the cash exchanges to the extreme that got us into #1, #2, and #4 in the standings. I'm just tired of there being one overruling strategy in this league where rebuilding teams fund championships through cash exchanges and I want to compete on a more competitive landscape because as the league is now with the cash exchanges isn't fun for me. It isn't all about winning for me so I don't like knowing I'm crushing other teams and sitting #2 in the standings because $34m of my players salaries are paid for by other teams.

To be honest the cash exchange issue and super teams takes away from my enjoyment of this league as it's completely out of control, unrealistic, and creates an uncompetitive environment. The 25% rule simply made things worse for rebuilding teams and did nothing to fix the actual issue.

[Billy]

We won?t be discussing a change to the cash exchange issue this off season. It?s too early to look into changing it again. It?s a pain in the ass to keep track of compared to something simple like a soft/hard cap but still too early to look into changing it again.

A lot of the current cash exchanges were already in place prior to the rule change so yes as stated, more time needs to be given for things to balance out.