Cubs/Rays Trade

[cfarris1985]

I get the salary dump part of this deal, but hate the way it turns out. Like h4 said, Jackson>Guyer. Its not an awful deal, but not a good one either. I'd honestly like to see the cases stated for why these players were involved a little better, because I can't say yes right now.

[Rob]

 :iatp:

Tampa gets better talent, Chicago gets cap relief.

[fantasyguru]

 :veto:


I just feel what Tampa Bay is getting is too much.

[chicubs33]

How often is it that a deal involving prospects is "fair"? They're called prospects for a reason...when I posted my trade block I believe I said I was trying to get rid of some money. Sanchez although may have put up the better numbers last season he's far from proven or consistant but the main reason is that he will be making a lot more money than Niemann in the next few years without too much difference in performance...yes Sanchez strikes guys out but I can fill that need elsewhere. Just because Howell and Soto were both the 2nd players listed doesn't mean their talents were being compared...Howell is a solid bullpen piece with a contract I dont mind and I dont know if Soto is still getting credit for his ROY award but he's nothing special and it isn't too far fetched to believe he'll lose his job within a year or so. Jackson and Guyer are somewhat of a wash IMO with Guyer being a little better hitter. I assume people saw that Jackson was the Cubs top prospect before the Rizzo deal and that Guyer was 6th or whatever for the Rays...that only goes to show how poor the Cubs system is and how strong the Rays are. Torres is an upgrade over McNutt and Hernandez is a long shot but a good one.

[chicubs33]

And if everyone wants to veto it be my guest.

[MillerTime]

How often is it that a deal involving prospects is "fair"? They're called prospects for a reason...when I posted my trade block I believe I said I was trying to get rid of some money. Sanchez although may have put up the better numbers last season he's far from proven or consistant but the main reason is that he will be making a lot more money than Niemann in the next few years without too much difference in performance...yes Sanchez strikes guys out but I can fill that need elsewhere. Just because Howell and Soto were both the 2nd players listed doesn't mean their talents were being compared...Howell is a solid bullpen piece with a contract I dont mind and I dont know if Soto is still getting credit for his ROY award but he's nothing special and it isn't too far fetched to believe he'll lose his job within a year or so. Jackson and Guyer are somewhat of a wash IMO with Guyer being a little better hitter. I assume people saw that Jackson was the Cubs top prospect before the Rizzo deal and that Guyer was 6th or whatever for the Rays...that only goes to show how poor the Cubs system is and how strong the Rays are. Torres is an upgrade over McNutt and Hernandez is a long shot but a good one.

On Guyer/Jackson, Jackson is a top 100 spec in baseball, Guyer is not.  This is consensus on all of the prospect rankings sites that I know.   

Please tweak the deal some if the Rays are willing to and repost. 

Thanks,

MT

[Rob]

For what it's worth, the Cubs are saving $4.7m here.  If he were getting a player with $4.7 market value I don't think anyone would veto.  I think some of you are being too picky.  Everyone has their opinions on prospects and if the Cubs GM is high on Guyer I don't see why he should be denied.  It's just my opinion, but I really don't think this is veto-able.

[h4cheng]

I am not a big fan of using prospect rankings to justify a prospect value. If the Cubs GM can rationally explain why "We feel the centerpiece to this deal is Brandon Guyer who we are proud to welcome back to the organization as well as new comer Alex Torres.", then I will not veto it.

[PlayerX3D]

I would like to take the opportunity to put my opinion in on this as well.  Speaking on my team's behalf, I believe that we improved our squad based on the deal.  However, I believe that the Cubs also made an improvement on their end as well.  Here's the reasoning:

Anibal Sanchez is a solid pitcher.  He has high K totals, but on his Miami team, he will need to maintain high K totals to offset the Win potential that Niemann brings to the table from TB.  When you toss in the huge difference in salaries, this is essentially a net wash.

Soto is coming off of two consecutive years of diminishing returns.  For a catcher, that's pretty scary.  However, we run in a two catcher league and for someone like me who is planning on contending this year, I cannot do so with John Jaso and Jose Lobaton.  I will take the $3M cap hit in order to secure a mid-range .250/18/80 type of catcher.  In exchange, I'm giving up a top-tier MR/setup in a league that counts Holds as much as Saves.  He gets him at a rate that is likely under that of the market rate in free agency or at least on par.

As far as the prospects go, Jackson is a good prospect.  He has decent "average starter" upside according to most scouts.  He has a hole in his swing, and that causes a lot of strikeouts.  While he's working to improve those, high strikeout numbers are killer in a league that penalizes them.  Toss in the fact that Guyer is likely to get PT on opening day, and Jackson has to hope that Soriano or Byrd gets dealt in order to play sometime this season, and this is more intriguing of a tradeoff than it looks.

Torres is a high upside arm that could be in the big leagues soon.  McNutt is a #4 SP upside prospect by this point.  Hernandez is a great hitting raw catcher that is probably a 2014 minimum ETA.

Overall, I like the value I got in this deal, but it is far from lopsided or collusionary when you consider the cap hits and the value of a Cubs "top prospect" versus a Rays "top prospect".  This is a good deal made by two competent owners that are trying to improve their teams.

Beau

[chicubs33]

Don't know if I can say it any better than Player just did but I never claimed to be getting blown out of the water with this deal. Am I expecting to now win the league after this trade? No. My team is so far from competing it's ridiculous and by doing this trade I don't think I exactly set my team back by such a large margin as some are saying. If you want to go by rankings then heres why Jackson is ranked so much higher...He's 21-22 years old who can play a very solid CF and steal a good amount of bases along with decent power. Guyer is 26, projects better as a corner OF with a little less Def. than Jackson and doesn't steal as many bases. If Guyer was the same age he would no doubt be a top 100 spec as someone stated about Jackson...he has the better overall stats IMO for what I'm looking for. Jackson's strikeout rates are high for a minor leaguer and its gonna require him to adjust his swing which can be a big problem for a young hitter. And back to the rankings thing...take Matt Moore out of the Rays prospect list and I'm getting back 2 top 5-6 prospects from the top farm system in the league. He's getting back a decent CF prospect and a guy who MIGHT be a #4-5 starter in McNutt...again the rankings of these players shows how poor the Cubs system is and how strong the Rays are if thats what you choose to go by.