Revised Blue Jays/Rockies Trade

[ThePetis]

I thought I would share my take on the deal... Obviously I like it, or I wouldn't have accepted the terms.  Salary dumps are hard to judge.  One prior trade that comes to mind occurred during my first week in AFB.

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=116082.0

Pirates trade pick 1.24, a 5th and 8th round, and $700K of Int'l money for pick 1.7 and Johnny Cueto.  No one had a problem with that trade.  It was my first week in the league and I was still feeling things out, so I stayed out of it.  Plus, I don't tend to veto trades if both owners are acting in good faith.  But in my opinion, that's a fair deal with Cueto removed.  But Colorado had financial issues and couldn't afford Cueto, so they had to pay to get rid of him.

Similar issue here.  Colorado couldn't afford Feliz and Andrus.  Realizing they were going to lose the players for nothing, I asked Chris what he would want in return.  Before we even discussed any names, Chris verified that he still had the rights to these players.  From Colorado's perspective, he was about to lose these players for nothing.  This way, he's getting a pitching prospect who can contribute this year, plus a draft pick next year.

Keep in mind that Feliz is coming back from Tommy John surgery.  Even though it may seem like it these days, a healthy return is no sure thing.  Last year alone, I bet on Cory Luebke, Brandon Beachy, and Scott Baker to return and provide value in a few of my other leagues.  None of those worked out and none are even in a safe position heading into this season.

Andrus is the real prize here, but he's only got one year remaining before he hits free agency.  Nolin is not the sexy prospect and sure, he got lit up in his one major league start last season.  But he's still young and has proven his self at every stop in the minors.  He's a good bet to provide excellent value of the life of his arbitration years.  He's exactly the type of prospect I'd look to extract from the rest of you.

I'll have no hard feelings if the deal is vetoed.  I just wanted a chance to express my points of view regarding the trade.

[chrisetc21]

I thought I would share my take on the deal... Obviously I like it, or I wouldn't have accepted the terms.  Salary dumps are hard to judge.  One prior trade that comes to mind occurred during my first week in AFB.

http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=116082.0

Pirates trade pick 1.24, a 5th and 8th round, and $700K of Int'l money for pick 1.7 and Johnny Cueto.  No one had a problem with that trade.  It was my first week in the league and I was still feeling things out, so I stayed out of it.  Plus, I don't tend to veto trades if both owners are acting in good faith.  But in my opinion, that's a fair deal with Cueto removed.  But Colorado had financial issues and couldn't afford Cueto, so they had to pay to get rid of him.

Similar issue here.  Colorado couldn't afford Feliz and Andrus.  Realizing they were going to lose the players for nothing, I asked Chris what he would want in return.  Before we even discussed any names, Chris verified that he still had the rights to these players.  From Colorado's perspective, he was about to lose these players for nothing.  This way, he's getting a pitching prospect who can contribute this year, plus a draft pick next year.

Keep in mind that Feliz is coming back from Tommy John surgery.  Even though it may seem like it these days, a healthy return is no sure thing.  Last year alone, I bet on Cory Luebke, Brandon Beachy, and Scott Baker to return and provide value in a few of my other leagues.  None of those worked out and none are even in a safe position heading into this season.

Andrus is the real prize here, but he's only got one year remaining before he hits free agency.  Nolin is not the sexy prospect and sure, he got lit up in his one major league start last season.  But he's still young and has proven his self at every stop in the minors.  He's a good bet to provide excellent value of the life of his arbitration years.  He's exactly the type of prospect I'd look to extract from the rest of you.

I'll have no hard feelings if the deal is vetoed.  I just wanted a chance to express my points of view regarding the trade.

The difference really is that Cueto was an actual salary dump of a player that missed most of the year with an injury.  Cueto has a $10 million salary and that put Colorado $2 million under the cap.  He literally couldn't sign more than four or five Arb eligible players without trading someone or going over the cap.  In addition, a Cueto contract extension would have been $20 million plus because he was in the top 1% of players in 2012.  Cueto in this league had very little value for some reason because I actively shopped him for two weeks with numerous teams and got very little interest.  Everyone was hesitant to be on the hook for $20 million after this season.  I made the trade because I thought I could flip him for a huge value and it didn't happen, not for my lack of trying

Colorado has $12 million in cap space now due to the Cueto trade and the Arb contracts of Andrus and Feliz together come to $7.7 million ($4.8 mil for Andrus and $2.9 million for Feliz).  He doesn't need to trade either one to sign his Arb players and he certainly doesn't need to trade both to do it.  If he wanted a little more room to sign a free agent he could simply trade one and if he announced it on his trade block he'd certainly get a lot better offers than this. He also has several players with larger contracts he could move that have value, Verlander, Cespedes, Kinsler, Butler.  I mean he can run his team like he wants but citing the cap as a reason here to accept this trade is not valid simply by the math.  He does not have to make this trade to get under the cap.  He could afford Feliz and Andrus this season.

This trade is a revision of your previous trade and what you've changed amounts to Wilin Rosario for a 4th round pick which is insane.  The way catchers are valued in this league Rosario is probably worth twenty 4th round picks.

If you have a problem with a trade you should say something, not use it to posture on future trades.

[limeygreen]

Happy to take views and accept league judgement.

Just to say that this is my first year in playing such a deep fantasy league so I am still trying to find my feet. However I do not like the implication that I do not know what I am doing and naturally I will choose to run my team as I see fit (and i seriously do not appreciate other owners telling me what I should do with my team and my roster spots…grrr). Anyone can see that my salary situation is completely screwed and I have to make some very hard decisions in who I keep/dont keep. While keeping Andrus/Feliz would have been possible it would have left me very hamstrung in respect of other options - you will have seen that I placed Cain on my trade block but no one is willing on to take his salary and the one sole offer I did receive would have been vetoed immediately on this board.

With arb deadline coming up I needed to make a deal relatively quickly - and I felt that the return for me was fine. Nolin is a good prospect and am happy to take a relatively high pick next year.

However the veto means that this time next week I will be, status quo remaining, in a weaker position - which isnt really fair for me.

I do think we need some objective rules/guidelines on vetoing as some decisions seem very subjective indeed.

[mrmetsman]

 :iatp:

Considering the fact he's gonna lose these 2 players anyway if he keeps them cus he can't afford them in ARB i think the Rockies GM made a good move to trade them just for the ARB Deadline.
Atleast now he has something to show for it.
While in a week he would have nothing.

The Blue Jays GM is able to afford the ARB for these players so for him it's a steal but imo a very smart steal.
Very smart business.
IRL these kinds of things happen aswell.
Look at the trade deadline deals with players who are end of contract.
The return on them isn't all that high either but the clubs know that if they wan't some kind of return they have to take action or they're left with nothing.

Quite frankly i wish i thought of this before because it's an excellent business move.
And imo it should in no way be vetoed cus both GM's aren't doing anything wrong.
They just made the most of their circumstances.
I can only applaud that.

Approve

[haseloff]

no issue here.  He's up against the wall.  The players don't balance out but there's plenty of risk and desperate time issues that make it fair.  You can't just look at the 'players vs players'.

 :iatp:

[pats1fan]

In my opinion this deal is hugely lopsided in favor of Toronto....The Nolin/draft pick package would barely be acceptable return for Feliz, say nothing about Andrus (IMO).  My vote is to Veto.

[yahoolando]

So far we have....

6 Approvals
4 Vetoes

we are only at 60% at this point which would be a veto

[chrisetc21]

I meant no disrespect to the Rockies or the Jays in my post so I apologize if it came off that way.  I would just urge every team to post in the trade block if they're in that big a bind with the cap.  It's just in your best interests to get the most offers possible for your players.  I know several of us are very active here and we read everything that gets posted.  I'm betting several owners would jump at the chance to get players the caliber of Andrus and Feliz at a discount due to cap/time issues.  Getting offers from several teams is best for each team and really what's best for the league in the long run.  Just sayin...

[Jimbo3280]

veto this trade wow

[yahoolando]

With 5 vetoes already this deal is vetoed.  Rework or sign them to arbitration and trade before FA starts!  I guarantee you get more.