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ProFSL Front Office => Franchise GM: Rules Changes => Franchise GM: History Books => Franchise GM => MLB DYNASTY GM HOME => Franchise GM: Clarifications & Discussion => Topic started by: Colby on September 13, 2010, 10:40:25 AM
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What should we do about regular season tiebreakers for 2011? The current system is to use the H2H record with other teams tied with the same record. This would be suited well if we had multiple matches against other teams. I feel that fantasy points scored in the regular season would be a much better tiebreaker and it is a reasonable simplification of the MLB tiebreaker system for our league.
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I agree with Chad that this needs to be changed to fantasy points scored.
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I understand the reason why noone wants to do head to head is becuz you dont play enough games head to head wise. Based on a 23 game schedule...if its ok and you give me a few days, I would like to draw up a custom schedule, focusing on division play. It can be done, and can be very effective if done correctly. I want to keep this league as close to real as possible. At the very worst, we could use record against division opponents but head to head is possible. It puts more value to your actual division games and thus will help build rivalries.
Major league tiebreakers are: If two teams are tied, and both are guaranteed in the playoffs then head to head is used. if they split then division record is used next.
If two teams are tied and only one gets in then they play a playoff game. win and your in.
Any opinions on this?
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A customized schedule would work best with the last tiebreaker being fantasy points scored. The best way to do it would be to have certain weeks noted as division weeks. This won't be perfect with the four five-team divisions, but the odd team out in each of those divisions can play each other. We could reserve two to three weeks for inter-league play around the same time that MLB has its inter-league play.
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Im working on it as we speak. Ill get an example done hopefully before i leave work. Depending on if i get busy.
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I think the schedule should be similar to the MLB schedule. Maybe one game against each team in the league and two games against the division teams.
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Here is what i got so far, it very just a little bit from this. week 10 and 11 are interleague. you will play each div team twice. then everyone once in ur conference. it will vary just a tad, like the nl central will not play one team in the nl and the al west might play each other 3 times instead of 2. but im gona make it as real as possible.
and we will start and end the season with division games
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I think Fantrax may let you to split a week into two scoring periods. That may allow more flexibility in schedule customization. i.e- You could play division opponents more often thus H2H would be more valuable.
It just seems to me that this decision goes hand-in hand with the elimination/alteration of the defensive scoring and SP limitations currently being discussed. In other words, a team can load up on SP/RP and rack up a lot of points (unrealistic in my point of view). H2H is is the standard (1st) tie-breaker in most, if not all, of the major sports played.
My vote goes to H2H
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I think Fantrax may let you to split a week into two scoring periods. That may allow more flexibility in schedule customization. i.e- You could play division opponents more often thus H2H would be more valuable.
It just seems to me that this decision goes hand-in hand with the elimination/alteration of the defensive scoring and SP limitations currently being discussed. In other words, a team can load up on SP/RP and rack up a lot of points (unrealistic in my point of view). H2H is is the standard (1st) tie-breaker in most, if not all, of the major sports played.
My vote goes to H2H
We discussed a shorter period for a 'game', but decided it wouldn't be fair as the outcome would be too dependent on MLB schedules (one FGM team might have players with 2 games for their players, another has 3, and it would be even more exaggerated for pitchers).
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Below is an example of a schedule. I have completed all American league schedules. weeks 10-16 are the weeks will interleague play will occur. The easiest and best way would be to match up divisions. The AL West plays there division opponents 3 teams each, giving them 9 divisions games, while the other two AL divisions play 8. The NL Central would have to match with the AL west when we cross for interleague, since they would be playing more division games. If you want to see more examples let me know, but we can definaly make this work with customized schedules. As you notice the Tigers play all divisions teams twice. Then all other AL opponents once. With a head to head tiebreaker you must sweep to win, your better because you beat them. The second tiebreaker could be points or divisional record. Any thoughts?
Detroit Tigers
1. Minnesota
2. @ Cleveland
3. @ Kansas City
4. Chicago
5. @ Anahiem
6. Toronto
7. Tampa Bay
8. @ Texas
9. Baltimore
10.
11.
12.
13.
14
15.
16. New York
17. Boston
18. @ Chicago
19. @ Minnesota
20. @ Oakland
21. @ Seattle
22. Kansas City
23. Cleveland
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We discussed a shorter period for a 'game', but decided it wouldn't be fair as the outcome would be too dependent on MLB schedules (one FGM team might have players with 2 games for their players, another has 3, and it would be even more exaggerated for pitchers).
I agree that you would be at the mercy of the MLB schedule but wouldn't it even out over a 46 game schedule?
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Arguments about the two matchup per week schedule can go either way. I do agree with Rick that the unfairness will even out through 46 matchups. However, it takes less luck and more skill to win a 7-day matchup opposed to a 3 or 4 day matchup.
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I agree. I would hate the 2 matchups a week. becuase you could win on luck. I do not like 2 weekly matchups at all
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I agree that you would be at the mercy of the MLB schedule but wouldn't it even out over a 46 game schedule?
But if the argument is to have H2H as a tiebreaker, then we can't have individual games at the whims of the MLB schedule - if I have bad scheduling luck the week I play my division rivals, then how is that a fair tie-breaker?
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But if the argument is to have H2H as a tiebreaker, then we can't have individual games at the whims of the MLB schedule - if I have bad scheduling luck the week I play my division rivals, then how is that a fair tie-breaker?
totally agree. I like the idea of 23 games customized schedule so it is equal. i totally agree with ben.
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It appears the direction we are going for regular season tiebreakers is H2H (since we will have an improved schedule), divisional record (ditto), and then fantasy points scored.
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But if the argument is to have H2H as a tiebreaker, then we can't have individual games at the whims of the MLB schedule - if I have bad scheduling luck the week I play my division rivals, then how is that a fair tie-breaker?
Well, I guess if we are counting on luck I've got no arguement
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It appears the direction we are going for regular season tiebreakers is H2H (since we will have an improved schedule), divisional record (ditto), and then fantasy points scored.
Personally, I'm voting for points. If we want a H2H aspect, I'd prefer overall Divisional Record to just one or two games.
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The only thing I strive for in any of my arguments is that we be as realistic as possible. The current 23 game schedule is certainly not a good enough sampling to determine a H2H tie-breaker. The proposed improvements go a long way in remedying that situation.
With position eligibility the way it is, there are too many ways to circumvent the rules to get points and forsake reality.
We can agree to disagree but I have to stick to my guns. H2H is the tradition way to settle a draw and until eligibility rules are settled i have to go with H2H.
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If the customized schedules are a go, then I'll switch my vote to H2H first, then Divisional record and finally Fantasy Points. But while there is only one game played between division rivals it would make no sense to use H2H as a tiebreaker. However, I can still see a problem that would require an exception to the rule. What if the tie happens between wild card teams from different divisions? They would have played each other only once, so it would be terribly unfair to use H2H. Total fantasy points should be used in this particular case.
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If the customized schedules are a go, then I'll switch my vote to H2H first, then Divisional record and finally Fantasy Points. But while there is only one game played between division rivals it would make no sense to use H2H as a tiebreaker. However, I can still see a problem that would require an exception to the rule. What if the tie happens between wild card teams from different divisions? They would have played each other only once, so it would be terribly unfair to use H2H. Total fantasy points should be used in this particular case.
Thanks to a new schedule, I feel that this is the way we are headed with the regular season tiebreakers...
1) Head to head record
2) Divisional record (if applicable)
3) Fantasy points scored
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Thanks to a new schedule, I feel that this is the way we are headed with the regular season tiebreakers...
1) Head to head record
2) Divisional record (if applicable)
3) Fantasy points scored
I'm 100% for this, Colb, pending the new schedules. I really think custom schedules will really emphasize divisional play (much like in real life) and will really make September everyone's favorite month.
jake
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Thanks to a new schedule, I feel that this is the way we are headed with the regular season tiebreakers...
1) Head to head record
2) Divisional record (if applicable)
3) Fantasy points scored
I think we should start a new poll before deciding to go with this, because currently total points is winning by 2x.
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Poll changed and reset, noted that 13 people wanted fantasy points scored whereas 6 wanted H2H. Keep in mind that we will be customizing the schedule to emphasize divisional play.
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What will happen if there is a tie in the Wild Card between different division rivals?
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What will happen if there is a tie in the Wild Card between different division rivals?
A wild card tie between two teams in the same division would go through the H2H, divisional record, and then fantasy points. For two teams not in the same division, the divisional record would not be considered.
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I don't like the idea of one game deciding it all. Since there would only be one game played among these two teams, can't we go directly to total fantasy points in this case?
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I don't like the idea of one game deciding it all. Since there would only be one game played among these two teams, can't we go directly to total fantasy points in this case?
yeah, you cant have one game deciding it all. It just not right!
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Here's a modified version to the current rule proposal for regular season tiebreakers...
If two or more teams in a division are tied for a playoff spot then the order of tiebreakers is determined by:
1) Head to head record
2) Divisional record
3) Fantasy points scored
If such teams are not in the same division then the only tiebreaker used will be fantasy points scored in the regular season.
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:winner: Love it
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Personally, I just don't get the push for head-to-head even if we do play 2 or 3 times. I'd much prefer divisional record and then points, where we know we won't have to worry about small sample sizes being an issue.
Here's a modified version to the current rule proposal for regular season tiebreakers...
If two or more teams in a division are tied for a playoff spot then the order of tiebreakers is determined by:
1) Head to head record
2) Divisional record
3) Fantasy points scored
If such teams are not in the same division then the only tiebreaker used will be fantasy points scored in the regular season.
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Personally, I just don't get the push for head-to-head even if we do play 2 or 3 times. I'd much prefer divisional record and then points, where we know we won't have to worry about small sample sizes being an issue.
I could even go for this as the new schedule will make the divisional record around eight games which is large enough. However, I can see teams complaining when they lose the tiebreaker despite beating someone in both of their matches that season.
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Here's a modified version to the current rule proposal for regular season tiebreakers...
If two or more teams in a division are tied for a playoff spot then the order of tiebreakers is determined by:
1) Head to head record
2) Divisional record
3) Fantasy points scored
If such teams are not in the same division then the only tiebreaker used will be fantasy points scored in the regular season.
I like this proposal a lot. :koolaid:
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Here's a modified version to the current rule proposal for regular season tiebreakers...
If two or more teams in a division are tied for a playoff spot then the order of tiebreakers is determined by:
1) Head to head record
2) Divisional record
3) Fantasy points scored
:iatp:
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Here is what i got so far, it very just a little bit from this. week 10 and 11 are interleague. you will play each div team twice. then everyone once in ur conference. it will vary just a tad, like the nl central will not play one team in the nl and the al west might play each other 3 times instead of 2. but im gona make it as real as possible.
and we will start and end the season with division games
The AL West does need to play each other 3 times each which only comes to 9 division games. The NL Central needs to play 2 games in the division and 1 game against all the NL teams - with one less inter-league game.
Even with the best possible customized schedule there will still be some teams that do not get an even break. If we use W-L for the standings then total points is the only obvious choice as a tiebreaker IMO.
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You are correct with the NL central that is how the schedule is. Im fine tuning them right now. it has taken a week to do all the teams. I should be done today and will post all schedules in a downloadable excel sheet for everyone to download.
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I agree with Colby's proposal.
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In my opinion, if a team were to play a division rival twice or three times in a season, and beat them the majority, that should take precedent over total points scored (if they were to have a tie in record). This isn't roto baseball, it's head to head, so total points shouldn't matter here.
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In my opinion, if a team were to play a division rival twice or three times in a season, and beat them the majority, that should take precedent over total points scored (if they were to have a tie in record). This isn't roto baseball, it's head to head, so total points shouldn't matter here.
Good point Jake!
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It appears that we are rather divided on this. Ultimately, I will make a decision on this matter. The original RC members are 3-2 in favor of my proposal with M.J. silent on the matter. I hope the league supports my eventual decision because we need something in the rules for tiebreakers.
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It appears that we are rather divided on this. Ultimately, I will make a decision on this matter. The original RC members are 3-2 in favor of my proposal with M.J. silent on the matter. I hope the league supports my eventual decision because we need something in the rules for tiebreakers.
I'm not hellbent against H2H, and wouldn't be upset if you went with that.