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ProFSL Front Office => Franchise NHL: Transactions => Franchise NHL => NHL DYNASTY GM HOME => Franchise NHL: Completed Transactions => Topic started by: snugerud on August 22, 2012, 03:14:54 PM
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Sorry , just never heard of a league that doesnt allow a 1 yr contract so would never have thought to ask.
I have even had in depth discussions on the league page regarding players like selanne and signing him to a 1 yr contract. No one ever came out and said oh btw, we don't allow 1 yr contracts so this discussion is pointless.
aug23-12: note... i split this discussion out of the Ivan Telegin FA bidding thread given this topic's relevance. we'll move this thread to the FNHL home pg in couple of days. * also revised subject line.
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Ah ha!
It appears snug and I were thinking the same thing, Pigs! Lol.
I'm all but assuming he was going to do the same thing I discussed with you via PM...
Sign a player to a 1-year deal, so he'd be (2012-13) ... and then "extend" him based on the past 2 years of his total FP according to the extensions page.
That's why I was asking if you could win a bid at 18m, sign to a 1-year deal and then "extend" right away, haha.
Snug... I thought I had found that loophole as well, but it came crashing to a halt when Pigs informed me there were no 1-year deals in this league. :(
Makes sense though, for that reason right there... And I'm assuming that's why you wanted Foligno on a 1-year deal, and also about the trade discussions we had! Makes sense now.
But it does say in the rules the minimum years for contracts, according to the bid value.
I do know what you're saying though.... Usually, on say a 9m bid, you can do:
1 year @ 9m
2 years @ 4.5m
3 years @ 3m
But looks like in this league, on that 9m bid, you have to go 3 years @ 3m
But Snug you're also right regarding those Selanne talks. I brought up that no one would be crazy enough to go 7m for 1-year on Selanne. And also that to save cap for this year if going for it, no one would give a 1-year contract, they'd spread it out over 2-3 years and deal with the buyout later.
Where you're right is that no one piped up and said there were no 1-year contracts in this league!
Oh well, it is what it is.
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Yuppers and I definitely know I am not the only person that read the same rule the same way.
it is what it is i guess.
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Yuppers and I definitely know I am not the only person that read the same rule the same way.
it is what it is i guess.
you mean you read this FNHL contract rule differently ...
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Contract Limits
Except for any contract inherited in 2010, all contracts must be no longer than five years. Also, for a given salary, all contacts (extension, FA) have term limits (maximum and minimum years contract can be per the salary) as provided below.
Maximum and Minimum Salaries / Years (non-variable)
<= $1.4m, 2 years
$1.5m - $5.4m, 3 years
$5.5m - $7.9m, 4 years
>=$8m, 5 years (the overall limit)
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i'm certain there's no mention of 1yr contract in there. however there is mention of contract length being "non-variable" per each value range. btw, there doesn't seem to be any 1 yr FA contract in DNHL (extensions in DNHL - ok, but not FA contracts).
also, ask a question in a new thread if you want me, contract cop, ex-commish's, roving commish, hf47 to have a better chance of seeing it. if a question is asked in a player's FA bidding thread, we might not see it or get to it very quickly. :toast:
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btw, the concept of a 1yr contract would create the quick extension loophole that would cause FNHL to have to intro new rules to plug the loophole.
so given FNHL's contract structure "ain't broke" (read with jersey accent) ... there's no need to fix anything at this time. :thumbsup:
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I think most (ones I'm in anyways) say basically the same thing as this rule, MINUS the "minimum" part...
Except for any contract inherited in 2010, all contracts must be no longer than five years. Also, for a given salary, all contacts (extension, FA) have term limits (maximum and minimum years contract can be per the salary) as provided below.
Usually (from my experience) it just says "maximum years" ... No mention of minimum.
So then you could do the 1 year contract and then extend a guy ... So to speak. Kind of a loophole I guess but if you do have the cap room then it is potentially possible if the rules aren't in place to stop you...
Could sign Marcus Foligno to a 1 year $17m contract if you had 17m or more in cap....
Then 1 day later decide to "extend" his contract for a couple more years using the last 2 years of total FP numbers.
Come to think of it - I should have done that in a couple other leagues, lol.
No cap space now though :(
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I think most (ones I'm in anyways) say basically the same thing as this rule, MINUS the "minimum" part...
Usually (from my experience) it just says "maximum years" ... No mention of minimum.
So then you could do the 1 year contract and then extend a guy ... So to speak. Kind of a loophole I guess but if you do have the cap room then it is potentially possible if the rules aren't in place to stop you...
Could sign Marcus Foligno to a 1 year $17m contract if you had 17m or more in cap....
Then 1 day later decide to "extend" his contract for a couple more years using the last 2 years of total FP numbers.
Come to think of it - I should have done that in a couple other leagues, lol.
No cap space now though :(
yeah, i hear you... i asked the ex-commish hf6k last off season about that when i saw goalies signing for 50m... what's to stop the 1yr with a quickie extension from happening... and the ans (to paraphrase hf6k), basically teams cannot sign a player to a 1yr 50m contract because 50 falls in the max 5yr range whenever contracts are valued at >=$8m, 5 years (the overall limit)
so couldn't it happen at the cheaper contract range of <= $1.4m, 2 years
... nope, since the min. yrs for a FA or extension is 2yrs.
so the ranges and associated contract lengths plug that quickie extension loophole... yes, i wanted to go thru that hole too last off-season, but couldn't. :(
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i can see we're in for a fun season (if only the owners and players sign a new CBA) with all this loophole and cap mgmt discussion.
hope everyone's ready to take on this new crop of FNHL GMs. :toast:
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yeee we should add 1 yr contracts.....like i stuck with bunch of guys that i don't need for 2 years..... 1 year 1 year!!!!
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..... 1 year 1 year!!!!
(http://img.izismile.com/img/img2/20090930/640/sexy_cheerleaders_640_03.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mmBw3uzPnJI/Sx6vA8m9kKI/AAAAAAAA6JU/eOOhEKH5h_U/s400/mlb_cheerleaders_01.jpg)
why is it i can only imagine these ladies chanting that "1 year 1 year" line? :o
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you mean you read this FNHL contract rule differently ...
i'm certain there's no mention of 1yr contract in there. however there is mention of contract length being "non-variable" per each value range. btw, there doesn't seem to be any 1 yr FA contract in DNHL (extensions in DNHL - ok, but not FA contracts).
also, ask a question in a new thread if you want me, contract cop, ex-commish's, roving commish, hf47 to have a better chance of seeing it. if a question is asked in a player's FA bidding thread, we might not see it or get to it very quickly. :toast:
When our commissioner and contract cop are using "loopholes" then it rubs off on the rest of the league.;
Any league I have been in the Non-variable refers to salary amounts ie. you cant offer 3m year one and 1 million in year two. Not the contract lengths. so i find that argument reaching a bit.
You are incorrect about DNHL, below is the rules of DNHL, well written and no room for interpretation.
Contract Limits
Except for any contract inherited in 2011, all contracts must be no longer than five years. Also, for a given salary, all contracts have term limits (max years contract can be per the yearly salary) as provided below.
Salary - Max Years
$5m+ - 5 years (the overall limit)
$3.5 to $4.9m - 4 years
$2 to $3.4m - 3 years
$0 to $1.9m - 2 years
Contract Limits for Extensions
Contract extensions follow the contract maximum lengths as shown above as well as their own minimum standards.
Salary - Min & Max Years
$6.5m+ - 5 years (the overall limit)
$5 to $6.4m - 4 or 5 years
$3.5 to $4.9m - 3 or 4 years
$2 to $3.4m - 2 or 3 years
$0 to $1.9m - 1 or 2 years
In the end my rant here is not about whether we can do 1 yr contracts,( although I do find the system very limiting ) its regarding the way the rule is written and left open for interpretation . You even commented yourself you asked the same question just last year so obviously you were reading it differently just like I did , you know read/understood it the same...
Just a little clarity needs to be written as in my example below. Especially considering new rules ideas are being thrown around in this league like girls panties at a Justin Beiber concert.
Contract Limits
Except for any contract inherited in 2010, all contracts must be no longer than five years and no less than 2 years. Also, for a given salary, all contacts (extension, FA) have term limits (maximum and minimum years contract can be per the salary) as provided below.
Maximum and Minimum Salaries / Years (non-variable)
<= $1.4m, 2 years
$1.5m - $5.4m, 3 years
$5.5m - $7.9m, 4 years
>=$8m, 5 years (the overall limit)
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Pigs, when you edited the rule for off season extensions did you save the old rule? Can you post both so I can see it please. This off season extensions the way it is now worded undermines the integrity of the league in my opinion, lowering cap so you can acquire FA, BUNK, never was that way before. And while I am at it, this whole discussion of looking for loopholes in rules is laughable. This is a fun but very competitive hobby and there are people spending countless amount of hours scrutinizing and then manipulating and interpeting the rules for their own benefit. One year contracts, give it a rest. Who am I playing against here? A bunch of divorce lawyers.
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When our commissioner and contract cop are using "loopholes" then it rubs off on the rest of the league.;
As contract cop, it's my duty to make sure that GMs are following the rules. If anything loopholes exist it is because the way the rules have been written and interpreted. If we want things to change, then we need to edit the rules, fix wording, or propose new rules.
Right now, that's not my job, but I'm happy to discuss those things. As long as people are following the rules in place, that's mainly what I care about.
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I believe this is a simple edit. There is no mention of 1 year contracts being allowed but there is no mention of them not being allowed either.
We have contract limit ranges that for 2 year contracts go to 1.4m so why not just allow a 1 year contract if the limit is under that range as well. You won't see any 50m contract for 1 year because the contract limits won't allow it. The maximum you could see a 1 year contract for is 1.4m which is perfectly acceptable as a 1 year contract and not obscure by real NHL standards. There is no loophole when you go to re-sign as the most someone could save would be 1.2m.
In Backyard I don't have 1 year contracts stated in the rules but I allow them. I also allow if someone wants to take that 50m 1 year contract because all it will do is hurt their team for that season because they won't be able to field a team. Also it is very hard to sign a contract of say 10m for 1 year because someone will simply bid 12m on the guy and get him for 3 years at 4.0m instead.
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=15470.0
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I believe this is a simple edit. There is no mention of 1 year contracts being allowed but there is no mention of them not being allowed either.
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i hope you're kiddin' drew.
it's straight fwd in this case, there are no 1-yr contracts for FAs nor for extensions in 2012-13...
if a 1yr option is requested by the majority, then the majority needs to speak up and ask for it because it will then impact a # of other rules (when to extend on a 1yr FA deal, values of 1yr deals, ... at this moment i count 2-3 ppl who want a 1yr deal available. also, it would only be implemented for 2013-14 because there's no need to make rule changes on the fly in this case.
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i am not asking for the 1 yr contracts to be implemented. i just think the rule should be more clear so as to not cause a confusion for new GMs coming into the league.
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i hope you're kiddin' drew.
it's straight fwd in this case, there are no 1-yr contracts for FAs nor for extensions in 2012-13...
if a 1yr option is requested by the majority, then the majority needs to speak up and ask for it because it will then impact a # of other rules (when to extend on a 1yr FA deal, values of 1yr deals, ... at this moment i count 2-3 ppl who want a 1yr deal available. also, it would only be implemented for 2013-14 because there's no need to make rule changes on the fly in this case.
What do you mean implemented, you are taking it away. I am about 95% sure there has in the past been 1 year contracts given out and there is no mention in the rules about them being allowed or not.
Your being very contradictory in your "not wanting to change rules on the fly". Really it is only some things you wish to change and some you don't wish to change at the moment or if it is something you remember from the previous year.
Here is one mention of 1 year contracts by joeshome:
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=17299.msg81892#msg81892
1 year contracts given out:
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=11662.msg49204#msg49204
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=10387.msg45986#msg45986
There are many many 1 year contracts given out as extensions as well, just give it a search.
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What do you mean implemented, you are taking it away. I am about 95% sure there has in the past been 1 year contracts given out and there is no mention in the rules about them being allowed or not.
Your being very contradictory in your "not wanting to change rules on the fly". Really it is only some things you wish to change and some you don't wish to change at the moment or if it is something you remember from the previous year.
Here is one mention of 1 year contracts by joeshome:
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=17299.msg81892#msg81892
1 year contracts given out:
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=11662.msg49204#msg49204
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=10387.msg45986#msg45986
There are many many 1 year contracts given out as extensions as well, just give it a search.
i'm surprised you're only jumping into the discussion now that 60% of free agency has been completed and after other discussions have been held on these pgs.
the discussion is good, however citing precedence only opens the door for other inconsistencies in different leagues, including this 1yr contract which wasn't applied consistently in the past. i recommend you post a poll on the FNHL home page with votes to be cast by reply (not radio buttons as anyone can click a radio). if a 1yr is requested, it will be implemented for 2013-14.
again, discussion is good but let's not make this a surpeme court case for a nice-to-have rule that doesn't adversely impact the league as a whole.
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aug23-12: note... i split this discussion out of the Ivan Telegin FA bidding thread given this topic's relevance. we'll move this thread to the FNHL home pg in couple of days. * also revised subject line.
thread now moved to FNHL home pg where it belongs, per note above.
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Drew is correct, a mere mistake in the grammar. I thought it was implied that there was no limit for the amount of years. This was the original intent of the rule and why it was implemented that way in different circumstances.
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i'm surprised you're only jumping into the discussion now that 60% of free agency has been completed and after other discussions have been held on these pgs.
the discussion is good, however citing precedence only opens the door for other inconsistencies in different leagues, including this 1yr contract which wasn't applied consistently in the past. i recommend you post a poll on the FNHL home page with votes to be cast by reply (not radio buttons as anyone can click a radio). if a 1yr is requested, it will be implemented for 2013-14.
again, discussion is good but let's not make this a surpeme court case for a nice-to-have rule that doesn't adversely impact the league as a whole.
I don't understand why when given proof of 1 year contracts in the past that you still refuse to allow it. They are part of the game of hockey as well as part of this league.
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I don't understand why when given proof of 1 year contracts in the past that you still refuse to allow it. They are part of the game of hockey as well as part of this league.
this is beating a dead horse.
because it was declined early in FNHL FA and allowing it now means we have to retroactively call up all other earlier requests.
again, it was not applied consistently as a rule. wouldn't u then have to look at older contracts to revise them as well?
furthermore, you then need to write a new rule to plug the extensions rule that would allow a FA signing of a 1yr contract followed immediately by an extension.
the rule is and was in place at the start of the contract roll-over, at the start of FA. this will remain so.
at this point i've proposed an action plan, pl act on it.
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this is beating a dead horse.
because it was declined early in FNHL FA and allowing it now means we have to retroactively call up all other earlier requests.
again, it was not applied consistently as a rule. wouldn't u then have to look at older contracts to revise them as well?
furthermore, you then need to write a new rule to plug the extensions rule that would allow a FA signing of a 1yr contract followed immediately by an extension.
the rule is and was in place at the start of the contract roll-over, at the start of FA. this will remain so.
at this point i've proposed an action plan, pl act on it.
Obviously your not going to change your stance but can you at least admit that this never was a rule that there is no 1 year contracts. It isn't in the rules either way so therefore you say "the rule is and was in place at the start of the contract roll-over" is a lie.
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This will be my last post on this subject. Here is my proposal, submit it for voting if you like it pigs. In the end this is your league your rules and I know from experience as a commish you cant implement every persons suggested changes so if you dont, you aren't hurting my feelings.
The below accomplishes 4 things. 1) plugs the extension loophole 2) plugs the 1 year extension loop hole and 3) Gives GM's the flexibility that they should have in FA to say sign a player to 6 million - 1 yr contract. 4) more closely mimics the current NHL standards.
Contracts:
Free Agent contracts and Extensions follow 2 different sets of rules.
Free Agent Contract Limits
All contracts must be no longer than five years. For a given salary, all contracts have term limits (max years contract can be per the yearly salary) as provided below.
Maximum Salaries / Years
<= $1.4m, 2 years (Max)
$1.5m - $5.4m, 3 years (Max)
$5.5m - $7.9m, 4 years (Max)
>=$8m, 5 years (Max)
Extensions
You may extend a player's contract in their final year, if extended during the season, the the new contract must be no less and no shorter than the current remaining contract. All contract extensions begin immediately and replace current contracts. Extensions must follow the current salary max/min years guidelines for extensions.
Maximum and Minimum Salaries / Years (non-variable)
<= $1.4m, 2 years (min/Max)
$1.5m - $5.4m, 3 years (min/Max)
$5.5m - $7.9m, 4 years (min/Max)
>=$8m, 5 years (min/Max)
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Time-out, time-out, time-out guys!
Look at it this way. The number of years are capped because we need some amount of organization. The contract length is naturally controlled by the skills of a player, and their ability to have a good year. This is an attempted replication of the real life workings; where if a player has a good year it bumps their ability to argue on the next contract.
The simple error is not a huge deal, you fix it and make it right going forth. The rule is taken from FGM (baseball). A long time ago this site was only baseball, and was called MLFB.info (MLFB for Major League Fantasy Baseball). The rules were adapted and flexed, re-written in some cases, but made to look like FGM. The true meaning of the rule is that 1 year contracts are implied. It should be updated to be more clear.
The best thing to do is to make this league realistic, and 1 year contracts do exist in the NHL.
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Also, beating a dead horse is to assume that we know all, and that our decision now is the best for eternity. We should always have time and place for the discussion of a rule. I believe discussion is the best way for this league to flourish...or any league.
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Joe, my post wasnt meant to come across arrogant or that I am giving up or anything. I am just making suggestions based on my experience and knowledge of running and playing in other leagues. I meant what I said about everyone has their suggestions opinions and that all cant be implemented. I have only been in the league for 1 month so I wont pretend to know how it has been run in the past. It will be all well and good to allow the 1 yr contracts but even though I would love to abuse the hell out of the extension rule its a loop hole that would need to be addressed if allowing 1 yr contracts.
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Joe, my post wasnt meant to come across arrogant or that I am giving up or anything. I am just making suggestions based on my experience and knowledge of running and playing in other leagues. I meant what I said about everyone has their suggestions opinions and that all cant be implemented. I have only been in the league for 1 month so I wont pretend to know how it has been run in the past. It will be all well and good to allow the 1 yr contracts but even though I would love to abuse the hell out of the extension rule its a loop hole that would need to be addressed if allowing 1 yr contracts.
Never sounded that way! My point is discussion is always healthy.
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ok, i thought from your time out message you thought I was getting heated up or something.