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ProFSL Front Office => Franchise GM: Rules Changes => Franchise GM: History Books => Franchise GM => MLB DYNASTY GM HOME => Franchise GM: Clarifications & Discussion => Topic started by: Dan Wood on May 19, 2010, 01:06:36 PM
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I brought this up in the trading FAs post, but Colby and I thought it should get it's own Topic. In MLB, when you draft a player, you are not allowed to trade them for 6 months after you sign them. I think we should have the same rule, or a similar rule, here as well. Since our draft won't happen until after the signing deadline, maybe we should make the rule that any player drafted in this years entry draft cannot be dealt until after the season is complete. Again I would like to hear the RCs thoughts on this.
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Roughly 2 months (60 days) seems sufficient to prohibit trading ED players. This will also coincide with the 60 day policy we just put into effect this week. Or rather, waiting until the playoffs are over. Either of those two options seem ok by me. 6 months might be a bit too long in our league.
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Roughly 2 months (60 days) seems sufficient to prohibit trading ED players. This will also coincide with the 60 day policy we just put into effect this week. Or rather, waiting until the playoffs are over. Either of those two options seem ok by me. 6 months might be a bit too long in our league.
I like the 60 days as well... goes right with the FA rule.
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I've done a bit of thinking on this:
1. Say a team has 10 picks each season, which is the average and what all teams start out with, not counting supplementals.
2. I fill my EDR with all 10 of my picks in 2010.
3. In the MLB, players are rarely brought up to the majors within 2-3 years of them getting drafted. I think this is probably agreed by everyone, correct?...so now 2011 arrives, and I have 10 new picks.
4. None of my 10 picks from 2010 are in the majors, so none are out of the EDR. To me, this seems highly likely for each team, as we rarely see the Strasburg's, Leake's, on a usual basis. At most, maybe 2 or 3 might be called up per team, and that's pretty generous I feel.
-I think I'll make my point here. If I want to draft 10 more guys in 2011, it appears my only option is to take up a quarter of my 40 man roster with guys who probably won't see any MLB action for a few years. Do I really want to do this? Most likely, no. Unless I want to wait 3-4 years to compete, which isn't every, or most, team's strategy.
Now obviously the best solution would be to pass on later draft picks, or not sign draft picks, or release drafted players to make room. But this seems a bid redundant and unnecessary if we were to simply shorten the Entry Draft.
I would recommend we not change anything this year, but maybe we should take a look at 2011's Entry Draft. 10 picks a year will really build a roster quick, and nobody wants to drop a kid who's 18 or 19 and might turn out to be a great player, just to make room for a guy with just as big a question mark.
Another option would be to expand the Entry Draft Roster. Possibly making it 15 or 20 would allow teams to fit all of those draft picks they select each year, instead of having to push EDR picks onto your 40 man roster, which is what I fear will happen come 2011's draft, possibly even this year with teams who have already filled up their EDR.
Let me hear your thoughts on this, and if my rationale doesn't seem right, feel free to correct me.
-jake
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I already asked about shrinking the entry draft to five rounds, and Ben mentioned that the RC passed legislation with the idea that the EDR would expand in size.
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I already asked about shrinking the entry draft to five rounds, and Ben mentioned that the RC passed legislation with the idea that the EDR would expand in size.
Ah, I recollect that now. Well I guess now is as good as time as any, so we can follow through with our prior legislation. Mike, I think setting the draft at 5 rounds seems right on the money. However, another option would be to expand the roster to 15-20. But sometimes more is less, and I mean that in a "headache" way. Having a draft that big would take a very long time to complete, even if all 30 teams were actively drafting. I think 5 rounds might be a more economical strategy.
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Ah, I recollect that now. Well I guess now is as good as time as any, so we can follow through with our prior legislation. Mike, I think setting the draft at 5 rounds seems right on the money. However, another option would be to expand the roster to 15-20. But sometimes more is less, and I mean that in a "headache" way. Having a draft that big would take a very long time to complete, even if all 30 teams were actively drafting. I think 5 rounds might be a more economical strategy.
I agree with the LESS is more concept... Ben's opinion on the 2011 draft and EDR size is needed. We could always increase the EDR to 12 and drop the rounds to 5. What we really need is a direction of the EDR... What size will it eventually settle at?
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I agree with the LESS is more concept... Ben's opinion on the 2011 draft and EDR size is needed. We could always increase the EDR to 12 and drop the rounds to 5. What we really need is a direction of the EDR... What size will it eventually settle at?
It's a decent difference, but in my opinion, 12-15 seems like an agreeable size. That would put us in the 360-450 total player base for new talent, which seems like not too many and not too few. Plus, many MiLB sites list a top 300, which would fit in nicely with this player base.
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I was thinking something like 15 for 2011, then up to 20 for 2012 and maybe stop there. The thinking is that teams will use all 10 picks, but probably not have any issue replacing last years late round picks with this years (grass is greener type thing, give me the new blood). If teams don't want to use any picks after the first 5 rounds, they are certainly not required to, but lets let the teams that want to use them all - no?
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I agree with the concept, and don't feel too strongly one way or the other on the 6 months vs 60 days (2 months). I think 6 months is more realistic, but 60 days is consistent with our new rule and might be easier to keep track of. I'll approve whichever gets more support (sounds like 60 days so far).
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I was thinking something like 15 for 2011, then up to 20 for 2012 and maybe stop there. The thinking is that teams will use all 10 picks, but probably not have any issue replacing last years late round picks with this years (grass is greener type thing, give me the new blood). If teams don't want to use any picks after the first 5 rounds, they are certainly not required to, but lets let the teams that want to use them all - no?
I'd like to think that most teams would allow at least 1-2 years to see how their ED players will perform before releasing them, as one year isn't really a good sample size when analyzing these players. I'm ok with a 'grass being greener' idea, but we don't usually see the potential these players have for 1, 2, maybe 3 years. I wouldn't rush to thinking that replacing the prior years ED players should be something we want to push, but that we let these players develop on our farms.
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However it is reasonable to believe that the present yr's early round draft picks will have more potential than last yr's late round picks.
~MTK
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I was thinking something like 15 for 2011, then up to 20 for 2012 and maybe stop there. The thinking is that teams will use all 10 picks, but probably not have any issue replacing last years late round picks with this years (grass is greener type thing, give me the new blood). If teams don't want to use any picks after the first 5 rounds, they are certainly not required to, but lets let the teams that want to use them all - no?
True, it's nice to have all 10 rounds for teams with barren EDR. I think we should keep it at 10 rounds, and teams can decide to forfeit picks at time of the draft if they like. I will probably forfeit some of my later round picks.
What I would like to see is a definite determination of the future size of the EDR. I support Ben's proposal of 15 for 2011 and 20 for 2012. However, when should the EDR expand? I say since we already traded a bunch of picks with the understanding that the EDR is at 10 then it should be expanded after this year's draft. Those additional five spots could not be used for the 2010 draft.
Also, any player drafted but not kept on the EDR is considered to have not signed, and therefore, not an official draft pick by the team. The EDR rules allows past draft picks that have never been on a team to be picked up in FA and thrown on the EDR. This suggests that these players cannot be put on the EDR at a later point.
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It seems to me the best choice would be to expand the EDR as opposed to decrease the number of picks. If a team used their ten picks in 2010 and 2011 they'd have 20 players on the EDR. And, by the time the Entry Draft for 2012 comes around the 2010 players would have had at least two years experience in the minors. By the end of the players second year on the roster a team can more appropriately decide to place him on the 40 man, keep him on the EDR and use up his slot or they can simply cut him lose. It allows teams to evaluate the talent they've drafted and still draft larger classes. Which is good for teams with low cap space and need to build through prospects.
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If everyone is fine with it, I would like to pass this as a 60-day rule.
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:iatp:
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I'll approve.
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RC vote for EDR planned expansion...
Expand to 15 after 2010 MLB FGM Entry Draft
Expand to 20 after 2011 MLB FGM Entry Draft
I support this expansion with a cap of 20 and each year the 10 rounds remaining the same.
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I'll approve.
I approve as well... and I feel this falls under our current 60-day FA rule. However, the players specified by the 60-day rule are both FA and draftees now.
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RC vote for EDR planned expansion...
Expand to 15 after 2010 MLB FGM Entry Draft
Expand to 20 after 2011 MLB FGM Entry Draft
I support this expansion with a cap of 20 and each year the 10 rounds remaining the same.
To confirm, Colb, if the expansion to 15 players is immediately after the draft, then it's safe to say that we have a 15 player roster for this year, instead of 10?
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To confirm, Colb, if the expansion to 15 players is immediately after the draft, then it's safe to say that we have a 15 player roster for this year, instead of 10?
Nope... 10: those players must fit into your EDR before expansion.
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Nope... 10: those players must fit into your EDR before expansion.
Ah, ok. Just wanted to clarify. However, if I am able to fit 5 players onto my 40 man roster, I can then immediately transfer them over to my 15 man EDR after the draft?
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The initial idea was that there was 1 and only 1 way to put a player on your EDR - immediately after they are drafted. Once you move them off, trade them, sign a player, they are no longer EDR eligible.
I'd approve Colby's suggested expansions to 15 be before the 2011 season, such that it will only apply to the 2011 draft and not 2010 (and then the same for the expansion to 20 before the 2012 season).
I also suggest that we stop the EDR transfers once and for all - teams have had plenty of time to scoop up prospects, we should get back to DRAFT ONLY.
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The initial idea was that there was 1 and only 1 way to put a player on your EDR - immediately after they are drafted. Once you move them off, trade them, sign a player, they are no longer EDR eligible.
I'd approve Colby's suggested expansions to 15 be before the 2011 season, such that it will only apply to the 2011 draft and not 2010 (and then the same for the expansion to 20 before the 2012 season).
I also suggest that we stop the EDR transfers once and for all - teams have had plenty of time to scoop up prospects, we should get back to DRAFT ONLY.
Yeah, you're probably right, Ben.
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Yeah, you're probably right, Ben.
I say let's pass two things here.. the proposed EDR expansion (after draft) and the cemented ruling that players can only go on your EDR upon being drafted (they could not have been picked up through FA).
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I say let's pass two things here.. the proposed EDR expansion (after draft) and the cemented ruling that players can only go on your EDR upon being drafted (they could not have been picked up through FA).
:iatp:
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I say let's pass two things here.. the proposed EDR expansion (after draft) and the cemented ruling that players can only go on your EDR upon being drafted (they could not have been picked up through FA).
Or if a player is drafted onto the 40 man roster, he cannot then immediately be placed on the EDR afterward. Correct? If so, I'll approve.
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Or if a player is drafted onto the 40 man roster, he cannot then immediately be placed on the EDR afterward. Correct? If so, I'll approve.
No one can be transferred to the EDR from anywhere except for the draft... including a 40-man roster.
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No one can be transferred to the EDR from anywhere except for the draft... including a 40-man roster.
Agreed. EDR placement, after this vote, will be based on future drafts only.
I support this, Jake appears to, and I know Ben does, so we need to here from the remaining three.
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I merged both EDR threads to have one concluding vote on these issues (Ben, Jake, and I supported both).
Entry Draft Roster Amendments
- Expand EDR to 15 after 2010 MLB FGM Entry Draft*
- Expand EDR to 20 after 2011 MLB FGM Entry Draft
- EDR stays at 20 in future years and the draft is always 10 rounds long.
- Players may only be placed on EDR directly after being drafted by your franchise.
- Previous 60-day no trade ruling for FA is extended to include draftees
*means draft picks cannot be included in expanded EDR slots
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Will the rule regarding EDR transfers, only draftees, is this beginning upon approval or with the 2011 season as well?
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Will the rule regarding EDR transfers, only draftees, is this beginning upon approval or with the 2011 season as well?
Immediate... it was our intention to have the rule like this all along.
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Immediate... it was our intention to have the rule like this all along.
Agreed. It is not a new rule that they will no longer be allowed - it is the removal of a temporary exception to allow such transfers, reverting back to the actual rule (note that even the temporary exception had objections, primarily from myself).
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I merged both EDR threads to have one concluding vote on these issues (Ben, Jake, and I supported both).
Entry Draft Roster Amendments
- Expand EDR to 15 after 2010 MLB FGM Entry Draft*
- Expand EDR to 20 after 2011 MLB FGM Entry Draft
- EDR stays at 20 in future years and the draft is always 10 rounds long.
- Players may only be placed on EDR directly after being drafted by your franchise.
- Previous 60-day no trade ruling for FA is extended to include draftees
*means draft picks cannot be included in expanded EDR slots
:bump:
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:iatp:
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great work, :iatp:
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:judge: 4-0
Thanks for hashing this one out gents.