ProFSL: Pro Fantasy Sports Leagues
Fantasy Leagues => Franchise GM: Transactions => Franchise GM => MLB Leagues => Franchise GM: Invalid Transactions => Topic started by: h4cheng on June 11, 2011, 02:58:11 PM
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MI Tulowitzki, Troy, $5m (2014)
RP Adam, Jason, $0.5m (P-n/a)
CI Cuthbert, Cheslor, $0.5m (P-n/a),
SP Burnett, A.J., $16.5m (2013)
for
MI Castro, Starlin, $5m (2012)
OF Hart, Corey, $2m (2012)
SP Marcum, Shaun, $4.5m (2012)
COL to confirm.
This deal will probably be scrutized as well. Here is what COL is getting:
- 20M contract in AJ Burnett off his hand, freeing money to re-sign Bruce and Bucholz
- Castro is a MI with a very good potential. He also has a very nice contract in that he can extended for 4 more years at 5.5M per year
- Hart is very useful (albeit volatile) OF
- Marcum is a top 30 Sp signed through next year at a reasonable rate.
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I do confirm this trade. I thought this trade through quite a bit and it's the best offer I have seen in ANY league I am in so far. Tulo is a tough bat to give up, however dumping Burnett and me not having to pay any of his contract is a boon to my cap situation. I am a fan of Castro and while he will never approach Tulo's status, he is only 22 years old and will be a solid MI for a long time. Hart is another solid bat I can add to my lineup. Marcum has really broken out this year in a new league on a contending team plus he is only 27 years old.
I do want this trade to go thru please.
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Just realized COL will be over the cap with this deal. I agree to cover an additional 2M off Hart's contract for this year.
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this is no worse then our deal castro will never be any better then average in this league, why is this one not being scrutinized like the other oh thats right because dodgers GM is gettin something out of this one.
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this is no worse then our deal castro will never be any better then average in this league, why is this one not being scrutinized like the other oh thats right because dodgers GM is gettin something out of this one.
You're jumping the gun here as no one from the TC has commented yet one way or another, and Howe mentioned in the opening post that he expects some scrutiny. I realize you're a bit frustrated, but you need to take a step back and undertand that the TC is composed of veteran league members who volunteer for the benefit of our league - they are not out to get you...
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reid you might want to check your numbers first. If you dropped burnett after the deadline this year you would be responible for very little of burnetts deal if anything at all since 6 mil is being covered by the yanks next year, and he is paid for this year. Look at the rules under contracts.
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You're jumping the gun here as no one from the TC has commented yet one way or another, and Howe mentioned in the opening post that he expects some scrutiny. I realize you're a bit frustrated, but you need to take a step back and undertand that the TC is composed of veteran league members who volunteer for the benefit of our league - they are not out to get you...
the problem as i have stated is dealslike mine have went through and all the sudden mine cant.
u have no clue how irritated i am right now sorry just need to vent i guess just ignore me
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This will be a good one. I see it as little worse than the Phils Sox deal that was put down. Should be fun to see the consistency.
Dan- I just explained to Reid about that. Thats something that he was not aware of when this deal was made. Hence the 2 week rule should be used just to allow new members time to grasp all the rules in the league. There are a lot of rules so give them time to learn before we try and take advantage of the new members.
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I'm not really sure about this deal. Tulo is a top 3 MI. I think more value needs to go back for Tulo. I think my Reyes deal that was vetoed was closer.
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I find it appalling that a team would offer a new member this deal.
Hart 12m to resign
Marcum 9.5
Castro 5
26.5 to resign for a team with a smaller sized cap. But in return the team takes Tulo top mi and top 3 contract in league (Tulo, Braun and Longoria) and snag a few under the radar specs. Takes burnett who is cheap to drop.
The more I look at this the more it bothers me.
Two week rule anyone?
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It seems like everyone comes in and says they want to learn all the rules and get a feel for things before making any moves, and then a day or two later they're making a huge splash in the trade market - I absolutely think we need the two week rule in place and enforced.
Guys, there is no rush - learn the rules, form a plan, maybe even discuss the plan with the people you know/trust in the league to see what you might be missing, ask lots of questions if you're unclear on things, browse the transaction board for the types of trades made in the past ... most importantly, take your time. This is a league where you build a team over the course of several seasons, not your first week on the job.
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Tulo: 1294pts
Castro: 608pts
Hart: 556 pts
Marcum: 714 pts
Total: 1878 pts
Pedoria: 1274 points
Greinke: 481 pts
Let's add 4 more starts: 481 / 7 * 11 = 755
Every player is a 2012 player.
Explain to me how these two deals are similar in anyway.
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mainly he doesnt have the cap room to resign all the guys plus bruce! not gonna lie bud u pointed out all kinds of Crap on my trade but its completly ok with u the guy who left the rockies gets a top 5 MI for not a lot. interesting :judge:
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I'm not really sure about this deal. Tulo is a top 3 MI. I think more value needs to go back for Tulo. I think my Reyes deal that was vetoed was closer.
:iatp:
Not only a top 3 MI but 5m for 2014. Ive said my peace, let a member learn the league before we take advantage.
It seems like everyone comes in and says they want to learn all the rules and get a feel for things before making any moves, and then a day or two later they're making a huge splash in the trade market - I absolutely think we need the two week rule in place and enforced.
Guys, there is no rush - learn the rules, form a plan, maybe even discuss the plan with the people you know/trust in the league to see what you might be missing, ask lots of questions if you're unclear on things, browse the transaction board for the types of trades made in the past ... most importantly, take your time. This is a league where you build a team over the course of several seasons, not your first week on the job.
Totally agree. When I joined I couldnt make a move for 2 weeks. Then i had about 10 days until the trade deadline. But in those two weeks I probably asked Jake and Colby 3 times a day something about the rules to fully understand the concept of the league. We need to actually implement the rules.
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i agree there should be a 2 week rule. i dont really remeber getting rid of it because when i joined i went through the 2 week rule and it helped
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:iatp:
Not only a top 3 MI but 5m for 2014. Ive said my peace, let a member learn the league before we take advantage.
Totally agree. When I joined I couldnt make a move for 2 weeks. Then i had about 10 days until the trade deadline. But in those two weeks I probably asked Jake and Colby 3 times a day something about the rules to fully understand the concept of the league. We need to actually implement the rules.
and myself i have asked corey a lot of questions and he has been great about explaining.
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2 weeks rule is still a rule and we should actually follow it
see under league settings and requirements it says
New GMs will go through a two week probationary period in which they are not allowed to make moves. If they prove that they are active enough and understand the rules thoroughly then they will officially be given the job.
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2 weeks rule is still a rule and we should actually follow it
see under league settings and requirements it says
New GMs will go through a two week probationary period in which they are not allowed to make moves. If they prove that they are active enough and understand the rules thoroughly then they will officially be given the job.
:iatp:
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I am ok with the trade veoted because of the 2 weeks rule. But to veto this deal because it's comparable in anyway to the Greinke/Pedroia deal is an insult. I appreciate Ben's impartial judgement in these posts. I wish some of the others could do the same.
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not to mention it saves him money to resign bruce...this deal adds salary to his payroll next year, making it less likely to resign a guy like bruce
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I am ok with the trade veoted because of the 2 weeks rule. But to veto this deal because it's comparable in anyway to the Greinke/Pedroia deal is an insult. I appreciate Ben's impartial judgement in these posts. I wish some of the others could do the same.
i would do the same IF my trade was treated fairly i will be back later after i decide whether or not i can be aprt of a league that isnt always done the same
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I am ok with the trade veoted because of the 2 weeks rule. But to veto this deal because it's comparable in anyway to the Greinke/Pedroia deal is an insult. I appreciate Ben's impartial judgement in these posts. I wish some of the others could do the same.
I would never let one deal influence another. I have too much respect for the guys in this league to do that. One trade has nothing to do with another.
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I would never let one deal influence another. I have too much respect for the guys in this league to do that. One trade has nothing to do with another.
There is an element of precedence to what can be a very subjective task of evaluating the fairness of trades, but the emotions attached to previous trades (or more importantly vetoed trades) should never be involved.
Another element that seems to be frustrating some new owners is that not all trades are treated equally since veteran GM's are given more leeway when on what seem like the short side of a deal since they have proven their abilities. There were some questions when I traded Gallardo for LaPorta/Cabrera in that I was getting a AAAA player and a no hit MI for a budding ace, but I'd say so far that one has worked out in my favor with Cabrera showing he can hit just fine. There are likely more extreme examples of this, but obviously my own moves come to mind first.
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I know I am not on the TC but I have to say this whole thing STINKS. For Howe to come out and bash another deal (rightly so in my opinion) under the guise of the new Rox owner not being familiar with the setup of the league and then going forward and making a deal with him under similar circumstances is extremely hypocritical and IMO a tad shady. I also think this is a stark reminder of why owners should not be allowed to switch franchises in the first place, especially one who has been around as long as Howe. He obviously became attached to some of his players and he knows how valuable some of them are in this format and as a result he's targeted them from an owner who may or may not be entirely familiar with the league; a judgment I will not make, instead I will leave it up to the owner himself to decide if he is comfortable enough in the scoring and structure of the league to begin making moves. Aside from the fact that I personally think the deal is (a 4-letter word I will not type) to speak out against one deal while making one of your own with the same owner under similar circumstances seems a little wrong to me.
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quote author=KDoc09 link=topic=23438.msg118990#msg118990 date=1307820127]
I know I am not on the TC but I have to say this whole thing STINKS. For Howe to come out and bash another deal (rightly so in my opinion) under the guise of the new Rox owner not being familiar with the setup of the league and then going forward and making a deal with him under similar circumstances is extremely hypocritical IMO a tad bit shady. I also think this is a stark reminder of why owners should not be allowed to switch franchises in the first place, especially one who has been around as long as Howe. He obviously became attached to some of his players and he knows how valuable some of them are in this format and as a result he's targeted them from an owner who may or may not be entirely familiar with the league; a judgment I will not make, instead I will leave it up to the owner himself to decide if he is comfortable enough in the scoring and structure of the league to begin making moves. Aside from the fact that I personally think the deal is (a 4-letter word I will not type) for the new COL GM to speak out against one deal while making one of your own with the same owner under similar circumstances seems a little wrong to me.
[/quote]
:iatp:
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I will re-interate:
Tulo: 1294pts
Castro: 608pts
Hart: 556 pts
Marcum: 714 pts
Total: 1878 pts
Pedoria: 1274 points
Greinke: 481 pts
Let's add 4 more starts: 481 / 7 * 11 = 755
I bashed the Pedroia deal because I thought it was a bad deal, period. I did not bash the deal just so I can steal one of my former players.
I honestly thought the Tulo deal would help both clubs (see the figures above). You are all free to disagree with the deal. But to question my character and attemp to tie this to the Pedoria deal is simply unfair.
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" 20M contract in AJ Burnett off his hand, freeing money to re-sign Bruce and Bucholz"
Did you mention to him that if he drops Burnett after July 31st he pays 2 mil next year, and 0 the following year? How does taking on salary next year help him re-sign Bruce and Bucholz? So not only does he lose Tulo, he will also most likely lose Bruce.
I don't disagree that there is value in the players that you are sending to the Rockies. But I have to agree that you prolly weren't completely up front with Reid in your dealings. I'm assuming a big part of the deal was taking on Burnett's contract, which isn't such a huge factor at all, in the grand scheme of things.
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Plus when you call another GM out, like you did to LTD (for possibly taking advantage of a GM unfamiliar with our scoring system), you open yourself up to the same sort of scrutiny.
You put on your cape to rescue Reid in his Pedroia deal, now others are doing the same... all's fair.
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The posting of a points disparity as an argument for why a trade is good might be good in theory, but it only works if you also account for the points lost by the players that must be taken out of the lineup in order for the owner to receive the benefit of having those new players on his club. Besides, we all know that there is more to a players value than just points, a favorable long-term contract for example.
And I never attacked your character I just made an observation based on the two deals and the subsequent arguments that followed. In my opinion, which I am allowed to have, there is a direct correlation between the two, not because of the deals themselves but the similarities in the circumstances surrounding them. I think if you are willing to apply your lens to one deal and not another because you are involved in one of them that is hypocritical. That is where my observation comes from. I have no axe to grind with anyone and I have no personal agenda at stake, I just want consistency in behavior.
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i agree with kdoc about the points lost for people taken out of lineup because hart is going to go from being on your bench to going to his bench
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And if you want to look at stats... Pedroia #8 FPG at MI, Zach #8 FPG at SP... stats can back up any argument, just depends on which ones you choose to look at.
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The posting of a points disparity as an argument for why a trade is good might be good in theory, but it only works if you also account for the points lost by the players that must be taken out of the lineup in order for the owner to receive the benefit of having those new players on his club. Besides, we all know that there is more to a players value than just points, a favorable long-term contract for example.
And I never attacked your character I just made an observation based on the two deals and the subsequent arguments that followed. In my opinion, which I am allowed to have, there is a direct correlation between the two, not because of the deals themselves but the similarities in the circumstances surrounding them. I think if you are willing to apply your lens to one deal and not another because you are involved in one of them that is hypocritical. That is where my observation comes from. I have no axe to grind with anyone and I have no personal agenda at stake, I just want consistency in behavior.
:iatp:
good to know im not the only one, seems kinda weird a lot of people think the TC isnt being consistent if it was just me it would be one thing but its more then just me
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My entire argument against the Pedroia trade is that Greinke will never outscore Pedoria, and it creates a big hole in the lineup.
I expected scrutiny with this deal, I have no problem with the questions pertaining to the trade itself.
And if you want to look at stats... Pedroia #8 FPG at MI, Zach #8 FPG at SP... stats can back up any argument, just depends on which ones you choose to look at.
and an average MI outscores an avg Sp by a wide margin, what's your point?
And what should would you do in my situation? Not trade him? I offered him a very fair deal looking at the points. The Pedroia deal is no where to close to this. Getting rid of Burnett is just a small part of the deal (at least for me). I didn't realize until later that the salaries are out of wack (which I am willing to fix).
If you look at the chats, even Corey that COL will benefit in the in the short term. That's a hell lot better than the other deal.
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the problem is u built that team and are attached to most of the guys, bottom line u should have no say so in a deal involving a team u just switched from and it should be that way with others if u switch teams your vote for anything involving them should be non exsistant for the first month or so.
but since u r prolly gettin tulo u r happy
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My point was any deal can be made to look good or bad depending on perspective. 28 and Kris also have a point, the Rox already have a full outfield - if he add Hart, who does he sit? Both his 3/4 OFs are doing better than Hart. So the trade comes down to adding Castro, is is pretty average in this league scoring format, and Marcum for Tulo. And adding cap, then having to pay Hart and Marcum after next year.
And yes trade with him all you want, but you should have made GD sure this trade was impeccable if you were going to call out another GM for not being forthcoming with the rules and offering a crap trade. This trade does not help the Rockies. He is giving a 20 ppg MI for an OF he doesn't need, a pitcher who is a bit above average, and an MI who scores 8 ppg. And paying to do so. Again, if Reid had looked at the scoring (as you thought he should have on his last deal), this is not as good of a trade as you may think it is.
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This trade does not help the Rockies. He is giving a 20 ppg MI for an OF he doesn't need, a pitcher who is a bit above average, and an MI who scores 8 ppg. And paying to do so.
so in this case him giving peds and getting a top notch pitcher would be better for HIM he has no need for OF.
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Is the two week rule in place, as Ben asked?
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Is the two week rule in place, as Ben asked?
Not sure... it wasn't when LTD took over
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Since my opinion has been brought up, I do not think its fair. A new gm is being taken advantage of. Tulo almost equals the production of all 3.
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had I not spoken up in the Pedoria deal, would this deal have gone through?
Seems like a lot of the chatter is about that..
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my stance would be the same. In 95% of the leagues Ped for Grienke would be fair. but in our scoring system there is a big difference. Both deals are vetoable and we need to stick to the 2 week policy.
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MI Tulowitzki, Troy, $5m (2014)
RP Adam, Jason, $0.5m (P-n/a)
CI Cuthbert, Cheslor, $0.5m (P-n/a),
SP Burnett, A.J., $16.5m (2013)
for
MI Castro, Starlin, $5m (2012)
OF Hart, Corey, $2m (2012)
SP Marcum, Shaun, $4.5m (2012)
COL to confirm.
This deal will probably be scrutized as well. Here is what COL is getting:
- 20M contract in AJ Burnett off his hand, freeing money to re-sign Bruce and Bucholz
- Castro is a MI with a very good potential. He also has a very nice contract in that he can extended for 4 more years at 5.5M per year
- Hart is very useful (albeit volatile) OF
- Marcum is a top 30 Sp signed through next year at a reasonable rate.
[/quote/]
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MI Tulowitzki, Troy, $5m (2014)
RP Adam, Jason, $0.5m (P-n/a)
CI Cuthbert, Cheslor, $0.5m (P-n/a),
SP Burnett, A.J., $16.5m (2013)
for
MI Castro, Starlin, $5m (2012)
OF Hart, Corey, $2m (2012)
SP Marcum, Shaun, $4.5m (2012)
COL to confirm.
This deal will probably be scrutized as well. Here is what COL is getting:
- 20M contract in AJ Burnett off his hand, freeing money to re-sign Bruce and Bucholz
- Castro is a MI with a very good potential. He also has a very nice contract in that he can extended for 4 more years at 5.5M per year
- Hart is very useful (albeit volatile) OF
- Marcum is a top 30 Sp signed through next year at a reasonable rate.
I'm not on the TC but this trade is a sham. The vulchers are circling Denver 'Guru, you need to cover up and protect yourself.
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I will again insist that we need a grace period in which a team who switched franchises is not allowed to make trades with his previous team. We all build our franchises trying to acquire our favorite players and if we agree to switch teams we have to be aware of the cost it represents. I propose that we implement as a rule that when an owner switches franchises he cannot trade with his previous team for at least a month or we will be having these issues every time an owner changes teams.
Regarding the two-week rule, I believe it is still in place, just that everyone forgot about it when ltd joined and started making all those trades early on.
I for one envy COL with Pedroia and Tulo at MI, it just doesn't get any better than that. I don't really understand why the new owner would want to get rid of them. But if he is so adamant in trading away one of his stars, I would like to see fair value given.
Evaluating the trade, it seems to me like it will bring even more cap woes to the Rockies than they currently have. Releasing Burnett will give them a very small future cap hit, so this is not as big a salary cap drop as it may seem. In fact, as was pointed out, the resign values of the players acquired are larger than the cap drop. Regarding player value, Tulo is definitely worth more than Castro, Hart (on the bench) and Marcum, especially with that contract, which is definitely a top three, comparable only to Longoria's and Braun's as was stated above. If the salary dump was real I would approve this trade since getting rid of such a bad contract is very difficult, but with all the money payed by the Yankees in Burnett's contract it just doesn't add up.
As a final point, I would like to point out that it is getting exhausting to have to read all of the ranting and insults thrown at the TC for trying to preserve the integrity of the league. Each trade is evaluated in similar fashion and we try to be as consistent as possible. We are all human, so it is possible that we make mistakes, but in general I believe the same line of If some owners are mad with the way trades are treated in this league, feel free to join another league. I am sure there are plenty of people in the ProFSL community who would like a team of their own in Franchise GM.
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I veto this trade for the health of the league. Adding Burnett makes this reasonable, but I disapprove for the several reasons:
Reid stated in a post that he was going to take his time and not deal players away, but take his time. He has sense tried to toss his two very valuable MIs away.
Also, I believe that a new GM is being taken advantage of, if in several weeks, this trade is agreed upon, I will reconsider.
Tulo is one of the premiere players in this league and I believe that more time should be taken before dealing him.
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I go to work after this 2nd trade and it's a short novel on bashing the TC and indirectly calling me out which is fine. The 2 week rule is fine and I did say I was not going to trade early to get a feel for the team. I rejected about 10 bad to terrible offers already before I did these 2 deals. Yes, the former Rock owner did tell me upfront about Burnett, Castro, everything, but I forgot how expensive Hart and the others will get in 2013. I did not know about Burnett and I can dump him for 60% next year and the next year.
I am just going to set my lineup and ask Colby, Corey etc. questions like others have to get a feel for this league. Obviously, hitters are worth much more and MI apparently are the cream of the crop. I got it. I did not try to create such a ruckus lol, but here we are. I will turn down each trade offer and I suspect that within 2 weeks from now, I will better understand the unique setup of this league. I don't mind people calling me out as I know im the noob, but the TC is in place for a reason. It's not my fault I don't think ahead like everyone else does just yet as I just joined 2 days ago. I will pick it up and my next trade will be much better. I am not going anywhere as this team is sweet and this league is awesome. Who in their right mind would leave? FGM is a step up from other leagues although some rules in New Era mimic these. Bottom line, let's just move on with the league and forget the BS that I created unknowingly lol. I will be better off with the 2 week rule, my next trades will be better, and the league can go on.
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After reading through all the posts, I will veto this trade under the terms that the Rockies were unfamiliar with the rules at this time, and misunderstood the arrangements on A.J. Burnett's contract.