ProFSL: Pro Fantasy Sports Leagues
ProFSL Front Office => Franchise NHL: Transactions => Franchise NHL => NHL DYNASTY GM HOME => Franchise NHL: Completed Transactions => Topic started by: joeshmoe on November 04, 2010, 01:45:10 PM
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I wonder if scoring is too low? Thoughts?
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I don't think its to low.. you can't really have too low scoring (I like how its more or less centered around 0). I just think the point system is kind of weird (penalties and +/- are too heavily weighted).
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Sorry but not on rules committee. Here is my say though, goalies wins and shutouts are worth to much, if a goalie gets 50 wins in a season that is worth 250pts and then they are bound to have shutouts in there are as well. Where are a 100 pts goal scorers with say 50 goals would only earn 150pts and I would say they should be about par. My advice would be for goalie wins to be 2pts and a shutout worth 5pts then move goals allowed to -1pt, saves are good as they are. As for skaters +/- should be either .5 or .25 and it shouldn't be judged on the same level as an assist. Penalties moved to -.25 and keep fight as they are, or possibly make fights 2pts in total.
Summary:
Skaters:
Plus/Minus: .50/.25
Assists: 1
Goals: 2
Face-offs won: .25
Penalties in Minutes: -.25
Hits per game: .25
Fights: 3.5/3.25
Goalies:
Goals Allowed: -1
Shutouts: 5
Saves: .25
Wins: 2
I believe this would better distribute out the points from skater to goalies from evenly. Just my input
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Also shots would be a good stat to add into the skaters column at .25/shot
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I don't think its to low.. you can't really have too low scoring (I like how its more or less centered around 0). I just think the point system is kind of weird (penalties and +/- are too heavily weighted).
Penalties hurt teams; I'd say 65% of goals come on the Power Play in the NHL. Which is why penalties are a negative (most leagues use them as positives), however, fighting has been added as a premium, which I felt was more accurate.
(+/-) Are a good indicator of player value, it's really a hustle stat. Maybe 1 point is a little much though? Should we scale it back?
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Sorry but not on rules committee. Here is my say though, goalies wins and shutouts are worth to much, if a goalie gets 50 wins in a season that is worth 250pts and then they are bound to have shutouts in there are as well. Where are a 100 pts goal scorers with say 50 goals would only earn 150pts and I would say they should be about par. My advice would be for goalie wins to be 2pts and a shutout worth 5pts then move goals allowed to -1pt, saves are good as they are. As for skaters +/- should be either .5 or .25 and it shouldn't be judged on the same level as an assist. Penalties moved to -.25 and keep fight as they are, or possibly make fights 2pts in total.
Summary:
Skaters:
Plus/Minus: .50/.25
Assists: 1
Goals: 2
Face-offs won: .25
Penalties in Minutes: -.25
Hits per game: .25
Fights: 3.5/3.25
Goalies:
Goals Allowed: -1
Shutouts: 5
Saves: .25
Wins: 2
I believe this would better distribute out the points from skater to goalies from evenly. Just my input
I like everything you said, and adding shots at .25. I vote yes to these changes. VOTES??
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obvisously yes for me
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I vote no to faceoffs won as a category. This hurts in a big way when you have wingers who Fantrax thinks are a C (especially with essentially no useful free agents) and you pretty much win every week if you have a multi-position guy who takes faceoffs. Faceoffs slant the points too much. The rest is fine. I also really like the way goalie stats are currently weighted, but I woldn't be overly opposed to changing them. The fact is, a goalie should be able to steal a win any week (see Halak in the playoffs versus the capitals) regardless of how good the forwards play, I'm just not sure if we let goalies steal weeks to easily right now.
Here's why I think penalties are a little too heavily weighted:
The median team gets 2.75 g/game which transaltes to .045g/min (assuming an average game has 61 minutes) = .09 g/2min.
The median team has a PP% of 16.7% = .167 goals/2 min. That means that taking a penalty is worth about .077 goals against in those 2 minutes (.167 - .09). Currently we have .25 for 1 PIM which is .5 fantasy points for a 2 minute penalty. We give 2 points for a goal, so a penalty is currently worth 1/4 of a goal or .25 of a goal.. while contributing only .077 of a goal. A penalty is worth .5 of an assist while contributing only .077 of an assist.. (or at worst if you want to say a goal has 2 assists (.154 of an assist). Either way I think its a touch too much (sorry for the excessive math)
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I vote no to faceoffs won as a category. This hurts in a big way when you have wingers who Fantrax thinks are a C (especially with essentially no useful free agents) and you pretty much win every week if you have a multi-position guy who takes faceoffs. Faceoffs slant the points too much. The rest is fine. I also really like the way goalie stats are currently weighted, but I woldn't be overly opposed to changing them. The fact is, a goalie should be able to steal a win any week (see Halak in the playoffs versus the capitals) regardless of how good the forwards play, I'm just not sure if we let goalies steal weeks to easily right now.
Here's why I think penalties are a little too heavily weighted:
The median team gets 2.75 g/game which transaltes to .045g/min (assuming an average game has 61 minutes) = .09 g/2min.
The median team has a PP% of 16.7% = .167 goals/2 min. That means that taking a penalty is worth about .077 goals against in those 2 minutes (.167 - .09). Currently we have .25 for 1 PIM which is .5 fantasy points for a 2 minute penalty. We give 2 points for a goal, so a penalty is currently worth 1/4 of a goal or .25 of a goal.. while contributing only .077 of a goal. A penalty is worth .5 of an assist while contributing only .077 of an assist.. (or at worst if you want to say a goal has 2 assists (.154 of an assist). Either way I think its a touch too much (sorry for the excessive math)
Clearly we need more discussion about the goalie situation: A goalie can play hot but if the forwards dont score it doesnt matter. Also, goalies can steal a game, as you have pointed out teddy. We need a good balance, both are equally important, as is defense and etc. Goalies being dominant can hurt a deep league like this where starting Goalies are a premium. Lets continue talking about this.
Faceoffs should be added if we leave goalies as is, to even out the point distribution. I think it relies on our decisions about goalie stats.
Penalties are designed to be a negative statistics. They take away from a teams total. Which is most common, as PK goals are very uncommon, and PP goals are typical. This is why fights are so heavily weighted at 3.5, because a 5 min penalty = -2.5, so a fight essentially is equal to an assist. Pretty applicable to the NHL I think, but I could be very wrong. Ted, you get that penalties are negative points right? Maybe I'm missing something you're saying.
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I still like the way I proposed the new scoring system as it levels out the playing field to about par for all players. Penalties have to be a negative .25 just because it hurts your team to have penalities. I feel goalies are weighed to heavily on in this current format we have as a goalie currently on any given night can out score all skaters combined
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I still like the way I proposed the new scoring system as it levels out the playing field to about par for all players. Penalties have to be a negative .25 just because it hurts your team to have penalities. I feel goalies are weighed to heavily on in this current format we have as a goalie currently on any given night can out score all skaters combined
It's true they are weighted a little heavy. Maybe another format with the numbers. So they're not sooooo dominant?
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Clearly we need more discussion about the goalie situation: A goalie can play hot but if the forwards dont score it doesnt matter. Also, goalies can steal a game, as you have pointed out teddy. We need a good balance, both are equally important, as is defense and etc. Goalies being dominant can hurt a deep league like this where starting Goalies are a premium. Lets continue talking about this.
Faceoffs should be added if we leave goalies as is, to even out the point distribution. I think it relies on our decisions about goalie stats.
Penalties are designed to be a negative statistics. They take away from a teams total. Which is most common, as PK goals are very uncommon, and PP goals are typical. This is why fights are so heavily weighted at 3.5, because a 5 min penalty = -2.5, so a fight essentially is equal to an assist. Pretty applicable to the NHL I think, but I could be very wrong. Ted, you get that penalties are negative points right? Maybe I'm missing something you're saying.
Yeah I understand that they are negative points.
Let me try to clarify what I meant...In our league, one penalty taken by your player is worth -.5 points to your team. A goal is worth 2 points. .5/2 = 0.25. What we are saying is that by taking a penalty, you are costing your team an extra 1/4 (0.25) of a goal compared to if you didn't take a penalty.
In the real NHL, taking a penalty means that the other team can be expected to score .077 more goals on your team while your in the box than if you didn't take the penalty (that number comes from another post). Based on this you can say in the real NHL, by taking a penalty you are getting -0.077 goals for your team.
So to recap. In our league, if you take 4 minor penalties and score 1 goal your even. In the real NHL, you can take ~13 minor penalties (1/.077) and score a goal to come up "even" for your team. Let me know if this is still not clear. The point is we weigh penalties as about 3 times worse than they turn out to be in the NHL.
Now I'm not suggesting using these exact numbers (-.077*2) as the damage a penalty causes, but I'm just showing that its much worse to take a penalty in our league than the actual NHL.
Edit: I would prefer to scale back goalie stats than to include faceoffs as a category.
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I've got ya now. It makes sense. So we make a penalty worth -.10 point? Is that more accurate? Are we agreeing penalties should not be a + ?
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Yeah that's a much more reasonable number, and yes it should be a -. This will also increase the value of players relative to goalies.
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I really like the idea of adding shots on goal as a category. If you guys check the fantrax closely, in the very beginning of this league we removed faceoffs won as a category. On fantrax is not currently not a category. Here is why. When we inputted the rosters on fantrax, by using faceoffs won as a category 88 of the top 100 players were centers. Only 1 Defenseman was in the top 100. It was completely out of wack.
So at the moment that is not a category and I am very stongly against having it as a category. Shots on goal great idea. I vote yes to that.
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Amendment #1: Add shots on goal as a category for .25 per shot.
Amendment #2: Goalie stats: Wins = 3pts, Shutout = 3pts. This makes a shutout worth 6 points total. I think this is more balanced. Goals Allowed = -1 (a win and three goals allowed would then equal each other out), is that fair, should it be lowered?
Amendment #3: Penalties = -.10point and Fights = 1.5 point (essentially a 1 point bonus for a fight after the -.5 for penalty minutes).
Amendment #4: +/- = .50pt instead of 1 point.
Amendment #5: No statistic for faceoff wins as it messes up player values for Defensemen.
Vote on each Amendment; I vote yes on each. These are now the proposed changes.
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Amendment #1: Add shots on goal as a category for .25 per shot.
Yes. But I think .25 may be too high.. I'd prefer it lower but if it doesn't change its still a yes.
Amendment #2: Goalie stats: Wins = 3pts, Shutout = 3pts. This makes a shutout worth 6 points total. I think this is more balanced. Goals Allowed = -1 (a win and three goals allowed would then equal each other out), is that fair, should it be lowered?
Yes. -1 is good.
Amendment #3: Penalties = -.10point and Fights = 1.5 point (essentially a 1 point bonus for a fight after the -.5 for penalty minutes).
Yes.
Amendment #4: +/- = .50pt instead of 1 point.
Yes.
Amendment #5: No statistic for faceoff wins as it messes up player values for Defensemen.
BIG Yes.
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Yes to all, just making sure there is still a category for goalie saves?
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Yes to all, just making sure there is still a category for goalie saves?
Yup, haven't changed it!
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:bump:
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When this gets amended will it be for the remainer of the season? We need to amend stuff quicker as well haha.
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It needs more than two yes votes...Have you even voted on it? :thumbsup:
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Yep me Teddy and possibly Corey have all voted yes
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corey hadn't voted on the latest proposal.
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yes to all scoring amendments
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I agree with all of the arguements. My biggest issue is the plus/minus. Three of my starting five defenseman are in the negative column and I'm better off just starting two of them. Mattais Ohlund is making $3.5 million and regarded as one of the better Dman of the league and is at -4, I'm better off cutting him for a 4th liner that won't hurt me and save a buck in the process.
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:judge: