Chicago Bulls

[KOYA TURLING]

(ok before we start, I just want to post this to have a little bit of discussion on real life basketball related stuff.  So we can talk to each other more and not from trades only :D.  We should set some rules.  1st.  No personal attacks.  2nd. Agree to disagree if a heated exchange is brewing)

Ok. Let's start

What is your perception on Derrick Rose? As a person. As a basketball player.

First of all, I was actually hoping him to come back at latest March 2013.  However as we all know, he did not come back. Back then, I said on forums that he should be given some slack as it is a major injury and only the mental aspect is not 100% fit and the Bulls should take care of him as they are invested on him for the next 4+years. As the season ended, I'm still thinking he will be back in the middle of the 1st round or 2nd round.  Then, the littany of injuries struck the bulls.  He did not come back.

So what is my perception to Rose now? He is weak mentally, not only did he bailed out on his teammates when Deng, Hinrich, etc got injured, he kept saying to the media that he might be back or he might sit it out.  This is what I think his priority.

1st: Health -- He is too afraid to play even 100% physically ready.
2nd. Business -- why? He kept making false hope statements , so that his shoes/ads will  be a hit "a.k.a The Return".
3rd Team - as stated above, he bailed out his teammates.  I don't know what his true intentions were.

As a player. 
1. I think his 3pt shooting will improve in 2013-2014 season. A long practice to hone your game makes a huge difference.
2.  He will be back like the high flyer that he is.  But I think he will tone it down a little bit with a new found deadly shooting.
3.  He will not be a 50% fg shooter next season.
4.  Something like 22ppg 3rpg 8 apg next season with anemic defensive stats.

All in all,As a Person - too inconsistent.  As a player - will see an improvement from him.

Hope that everyone participates Discuss!

[HarkTheClark]

Maybe I haven't been doing my homework too well, but isn't it possible that, even though he was cleared to participate fully in basketball activities by the team physicians, the Bulls as an organization decided the best thing to do was for him to sit? As far as I know, this could still be a factor, and if it is, it's certainly not his fault.

As for my personal opinion, though, on the one hand it was kinda weak to skip on the playoff run, especially when so many players were getting injured. But how much difference would he have made anyway? It would take him time to get over it mentally, it would take him time to get to the point where he could contribute, and the way that series was playing out, there could be a chance for him to be subject to some unnecessary hard play.

Now, if we could find out that he was ready to roll 6-8 weeks before the playoffs started, then maybe he could find enough of a groove to help the team, get over his mental blocks, etc. But I just think the organization probably had a target date for him to see the court before they'd shut him down, and he wasn't there. Maybe that's his fault, maybe it's the Bulls being overly cautious, maybe it's bad luck, who knows.

This is my take. Never been a big fan of the guy, so I don't really have any reason to try to "defend" him, just calling it like I see it.

[KOYA TURLING]

Thibodeau and the Bulls always say that the decision will be on Rose whenever he is ready.  So, I guess Rose will not take the responsibility on a decision by the team. We don't know and your opinion may hold true. 

What I think the positive thing if he ever played was. 
1.  Morale boost for his teammates
2. 20-25 minutes of better play than Teague, Bellinelli (when he's struggling), a breather for butler etc.
3. Getting over the hump on the mental aspect

Agree with you that they didn't fully disclose his real status.  Maybe for the team, they want him to sit out the whole year but for marketing purposes they keep making false hope.

Actually this saga is more annoying than entertaining because of the daily non-update news.

[HarkTheClark]

Well, the main reason I'd keep him dangling out there as a possibility, even if behind closed doors I've shut him down, is so teams have to worry about him playing, at least some. It's the whole Tebow effect, have him on your team because your opponents that week have to spend some time in case he plays.

It definitely would have been a morale boost, and yes, he likely would have given more productive minutes than a guy like Teague. But how much is that really saying? That's not going to get them past Miami, the only way they'd have a chance is if he came onto the court and played like he did in 2011. Even then it's not likely. And if you're about 70% sure on him, do you really want to put him in that position? I really don't have any proof, but I find this easier to believe than Rose just wimping put on the whole thing.

[KOYA TURLING]

Good point! keep the opponent guessing eh. And yes I agree that even he plays against the Heat they won't probably win a game or two.

The negative thing about not playing at all this season is he will be off for 1 and a half year and the fear of trusting his knee will linger longer until he actually steps on the court and produce something.

[KOYA TURLING]

maybe? We know rose as a humble kid, soft spoken etc.  But this season is a trial for him and  in my opinion, a person is defined by the trials and tribulations he face.

[Garfield]

I agree with the spirit of Hark's original reply. There are plenty of question marks here, thus us puny humans can only guess. Given this disclaimer, my theory is management went through the following train of thought:

• He might be physically ready to play against the Heat.
• Would it extend the series? Yes.
• Would it win us the series? No.
• So let's make sure he knows how important he is to us. He'll choose when to come back himself. His style of play might be the most physically demanding in the league. Our focus is to make Thibodeau-Rose the next iteration of Jackson-Jordan. Both Bulls for a decade. After all, the guy won an MVP in his third season, that's extremely rare.

From Rose's point of view, it starts similarly. Can I extend it? Yes. Win it? No. And since my management if offering: does it help me physically and mentally if I wait? Yes, apparently. Thus, he had the right to make this decision and used it. Thus, calling him weak in unwarranted here.

The rest is just media looking for a big story everywhere. Just the times we live in.

I'm not qualified to judge him on the court. But if he manages to add an extra dimension (shooting) to his already MVP-like level, it will be amazing. Many tried before. Some failed miserably (Rondo), others kinda managed (Wade, Parker), very few nailed it (Jordan).

PS
Does anybody know if they would have lost insurance money if he had played against the Heat?

[frankbullsfan]

i am a huge Chicago Bulls fan and have been for 25 or more plus years.  I think that both the bulls and Rose had a hand in the decision not to let him play this year i think it may have been like Hark said  that the bulls may have said that he was cleared to play and that they would leave the decision up to him when to come back and think that behind closed doors management may have been kinda telling him not to come back this year and to kinda wait until next year because they didn't think they had a chance to beat Miami .  I really think though if they had been at 100 percent with everyone healthy even without Rose i think that they may have had a chance to beat Miami considering they had done it already that season.  As much as i would have liked to have seen Rose come back and play this year i don't really think he would have been as effective unless they put him at the point position where he naturally is and with the playoffs this year even though we could have possibly gone farther with him i think that it was the right decision on all peoples parts if Rose didn't  feel ready or management wanted to rest him until the end of the year because it gave us a glimpse of what we might have as far as talent behind rose or at SG with Nate Robinson who had a great post season and i really think was the leader this post season for the bulls although i have always kinda prefered the bulls secondary players as my favorites.  One example of this was during the Jordan years everyone knew that Jordan was the star of the team but i think my favorite players of those teams may have been like B J Armstrong or John Paxon  or even a couple of their centers like Bill  Cartwright or  Luke Longley .

[yangboy]

Hi, I have no official team yet, but I would just like to share my thoughts on this topic. I really believe Derick Rose will be back like the old derrick rose next year.(for a short time. even Amare showed flashes of the old Amare after his injury), but the sad thing is there is a huge chance that he might re injure himself, considering his style of play. It is very hard to imagine that he will be effective if he will change his style (ie relying less on penetration).

Speaking of Nate Robinson, I do not think that his stellar post season will carry over next year especially when Rose comes back. Yes, he is very explosive, as such he can be a great player off the bench to provide spark and energy, but Nate has been inconsistent all throughout his career. I remember when out of the NY Knicks doghouse, he lit up (I think it was ) Atlanta for 30 plus points. Then following that game up with a dud.

In relation to having a great post season, how about Jimmy Butler. Those complete game of 48 min were very impressive. Granting that they are undermanned (this is an understatement), still 48 min of energy play while defending Lebron most of the time is remarkable. I think that he can easily slide down to SG once Deng comes back and contribute more next season. His style of play is perfect to the Chicago Bulls.
 

[Garfield]

In relation to having a great post season, how about Jimmy Butler. Those complete game of 48 min were very impressive. Granting that they are undermanned (this is an understatement), still 48 min of energy play while defending Lebron most of the time is remarkable. I think that he can easily slide down to SG once Deng comes back and contribute more next season. His style of play is perfect to the Chicago Bulls.

Yep, Coach T has recently stated he expects Butler to start for years to come. If Deng can stay healthy, Butler should probably share SG duties with Belinelli in the long run. Meaning either Nate or Hinrich needs a new team?