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* UCI WorldTour


Author Topic: Expansion draft (brainstorming)  (Read 1580 times)

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Offline Garfield

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Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« on: January 09, 2013, 03:08:42 PM »
EXAMPLE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NBA_Expansion_Draft

THEORY

We each select a number of protected riders we want to keep (I'd suggest 15). From the unprotected ones, Blankzy can choose 1 rider from each team and transfer him (together with the contract) to Lotto. This takes him to 21 total riders. Then the free agency continues as usual.

PRACTICE

Everybody could add grey background to indicate protection. E.g.:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvqIcA7i9Q8CdDZ2SGNnMWNpb09kdzRyNlJiajVtZlE&gid=27#gid=27

TIMING

TDU starts January 22.
4 days for selecting your squad => January 18.
3 days for Blankzy to digest the rules and add his riders => January 15.
3 days for selecting your protected riders => January 12.
This leaves us with another 3 days for brainstorming.

Thoughts?

Offline RenoDelft

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 03:20:16 PM »
It looks fine for me.

It makes a lot of sense if we would like to see people joining the league.....especially when auctions are already finished......

Offline RenoDelft

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 03:21:02 PM »
It looks fine for me.

It makes a lot of sense if we would like to see people joining the league.....especially when auctions are already finished......

by finish i mean that all the big names are already taken.....

Offline TERatcliffe26

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 05:24:24 PM »
Only protecting half your riders to me seems like giving Blankzy slightly too much freedom of choice. especially considering how much time was spent to have to assemble the teams within the budget confines.

Personally id suggest protection of 20 riders is fairer as it should still give him a pool of in excess of 100 riders to choose from and is unlikely to have many budget issues, unless someone is willing to let a top rider go in teams that dont have a full roster.

I presume Blankzy is taking up lotto? would it be with in the rules for me to propose a multi rider trade to him before the expansion draft?

Offline Blankzy

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2013, 05:45:26 PM »
Only protecting half your riders to me seems like giving Blankzy slightly too much freedom of choice. especially considering how much time was spent to have to assemble the teams within the budget confines.

Personally id suggest protection of 20 riders is fairer as it should still give him a pool of in excess of 100 riders to choose from and is unlikely to have many budget issues, unless someone is willing to let a top rider go in teams that dont have a full roster.

I presume Blankzy is taking up lotto? would it be with in the rules for me to propose a multi rider trade to him before the expansion draft?

I'm very grateful for you guys going out of your way to let me in after all the rosters are set, and the last thing I want to do is say anything out of turn.  That being said, I have to say in regards to this comment, picking 15 riders to take off the table really isn't giving me too much freedom of choice.  Think of what it actually means.  Imagine there was a draft, and everyone picked their first rounder cyclists, all the big names.  Then the 2nd round, 3rd, 4th, all the way to the 15th round.  Then you let someone who didn't get to take any of those riders get first crack of everything that's left. I just don't think you guys will feel your rosters are that much weaker and adding five more rounds of riders to keep just seems like a bit much.  However, I will certainly take what I can get and if that's what everyone feels comfortable with then that is fine. 

Offline TERatcliffe26

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 05:56:20 PM »
I kinda of see your point however riders were originally allocated on an auction based process. And im viewing it purely on my roster, as I decided to take on more riders of a similar value say 200/300k rather than any real star riders over 1mil, therefore I just feel I may loose someone I wouldn't want to, however I also may not. Regardless of that the more the merrier, and I will be happy what ever is decided, I was just putting my view across

Anyway if its allowed and you would be up for it I would be willing to do a multi rider trade for Luis Leon Sanchez?

Offline Garfield

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 07:50:00 PM »
Personally id suggest protection of 20 riders

Well, I must admit the original proposal was going to be either "protect 15" or "free up 10". My gut told me the former would be simpler, but I can see your point, and I imagine the latter would be your preferred version. Nothing is decided yet.

Also, you'll lose exactly 1 rider. Let's not get too dramatic :P

I presume Blankzy is taking up lotto? would it be with in the rules for me to propose a multi rider trade to him before the expansion draft?

Let's keep it clean and keep those for after the draft. Anyway, for him it's impossible at the moment to assess what he'll end up with.

Imagine there was a draft, and everyone picked their first rounder cyclists, all the big names.  Then the 2nd round, 3rd, 4th, all the way to the 15th round.  Then you let someone who didn't get to take any of those riders get first crack of everything that's left.

Not exactly. We acquired everybody via auction, so I can't really tell you if I prefer to keep Lutsenko for €30 or Wiggo for €1000. Or at least this should be my state of mind. Maybe to achieve this I should allow people to keep the money they don't spend for next year?

Offline RenoDelft

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 04:55:10 AM »
Well, I must admit the original proposal was going to be either "protect 15" or "free up 10". My gut told me the former would be simpler, but I can see your point, and I imagine the latter would be your preferred version. Nothing is decided yet.

Well perhaps you can allow both letting the manager decides if he wants to protect 15 riders or free up 10....
The teams are quite different in their set up, so i could understand that protecting only 15 riders is to low for TERatcliffe26 but for my team freeing up 10 riders would be a bit excessive.

Not exactly. We acquired everybody via auction, so I can't really tell you if I prefer to keep Lutsenko for €30 or Wiggo for €1000. Or at least this should be my state of mind. Maybe to achieve this I should allow people to keep the money they don't spend for next year?

That would change then the whole game.....
Personnally i prefer the way it is now.

Offline Fus87

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 05:30:55 AM »
Ooh, more exciting stuff. :disco:
The only bad thing is that I'm on the receiving end of it... :doh:
I'm fine with both 15 or 20 protected riders, however if it's free choice I'm afraid many people will choose to protect 20, even if their team doesn't warrant it. Humans are just egoistic like that. :P
I'd say that the standard should be 15 protected riders, with an exception for those teams with a highly homogenous roster (say, more than 15 riders above 100k salary - that would be Astana, GreenEdge & Lampre, interestingly enough not Euskaltel; but it's just an idea). On the other hand, as Garfield says, you'll lose just one rider - might as well deal with it. But I'm happy to go with what the majority (or the boss) says.

I was about to say that we should try to get this done before the TDU, but I see Garfield has already stated that. Also, in case someone doesn't check and protect any riders, I think we should make an auto-selection (15 most expensive riders would be the easiest; 15 riders with most CQ points 2012 is possible, but unnecessarily complicated).

Not exactly. We acquired everybody via auction, so I can't really tell you if I prefer to keep Lutsenko for €30 or Wiggo for €1000. Or at least this should be my state of mind. Maybe to achieve this I should allow people to keep the money they don't spend for next year?

As Reno-Delft says, that would change the entire dynamic. Not a fan (and that would be the same also if I hadn't spent all my money already).

Last, but not least, welcome to Blankzy!

Offline Garfield

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Re: Expansion draft (brainstorming)
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 06:05:36 AM »
I'd say that the standard should be 15 protected riders, with an exception for those teams with a highly homogeneous roster

Alternatively, we could be able to protect some fixed total salary, e.g. max 4000.

But whatever we decide eventually, it's going to be simple and transparent. That's why we brainstorm in advance to select the lesser evil. The only complaint I ever hear about my leagues is that they're too intricate.

Also, this is an expansion DRAFT, thus (see the example I started with) potentially more teams could participate. I'm recruiting very aggressively till the beginning of next week, and any help in that area would be very appreciated. Not only the more the merrier, but having 2-3 people would really give this whole expansion draft mechanic a decent test ride.

E.g. if we can find one more person willing to take on an empty team, he'd have his two neo-pro draft picks and the 1st pick in the expansion draft (and the 3rd, the 5th, all the way to 29th, leaving Blankzy with the even ones).

Btw taking into account that there is going to be more talent discovered in the peloton this spring (nobody knew in January 2012 who Moser, Pardilla, or Nordhaug were), some of you might thank me for the 1-2 empty roster spots one day ;)