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Offline Garfield

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Wall Street Brainstorming
« on: September 11, 2016, 09:07:48 PM »
So we have a league with long contracts and a neo-pro draft. We have one with riders divided by specialization. Another where their worth is decided by past years' results. Yet another where only a certain group of very related races counts. Soon we'll have one for youngsters and focused on extensions.

What we don't have is a league that requires you to stay active during the entire season and react quickly based on the riders' current shape. And I'm on a mission to change that!

The rules are far from ready. Looking for lots of ideas from your side. The basic concept is to treat the peloton like the trade market. No contracts needed, you simply acquire rider A for an amount B on day C, and from then on he scores whatever he scores.

Losing the rider is the key here though. It could be implemented in many different ways, for example when another team offers you an amount of money you like (even in the middle of a tour), or otherwise automatically after the rider completes the next race, at which point you're reimbursed. Actually, the leaderboard could directly correlate your wealth with your standing.

Example: everybody starts with 1000 coins. Before the Giro, I start an auction for Nibali and another for Viviani, but eventually Joel overbids and gets the former for 312 coins, while Davy snatches the latter for 189. I decide not to buy anybody else. In the Giro, Nibs scores 313 CQ points, Viv 187. Both riders are automatically returned to the pool, and their owners reimbursed. Joel now leads with 1001 coins, I'm second at 1000, Davy has 998.

The calendar and team size would both be quite small here. I'm not sure how much sense it makes. But hey, at least Davy got his ass kicked ;)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 02:57:04 PM by Garfield »
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Offline davy duck

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 07:38:28 AM »
I'm very enthousiast about this idea.
And I don't mean the idea of getting my ass kicked ...

I think WT-calender will do the trick.
And teams of 10-12 riders.
That way there is plenty of riders left on the market to exchange.

It's a good example you give there. Because there is a big danger in it.If someone stays passive all the time and remains with his 1000 coins, he can not win the game. Some thinking needed to prevent that.

The auction system is good as you propose it, but it should be rather short (with a notification for every manager), and not extendable.
For example. I want xxx for E3 Harelbeke. I start the auction. If several managers places tactical bets just to extend the auction time I wont have him for E3 Harelbeke, and if he rocks there, the week after everybody wants him for RVV.
So perhaps a system of blind auctions ...
For example I start an auction on Benoot. Now everybody got 72 houres to place a bet on Benoot. The highest bid wins.
This needs the help from a moderator who doesn't participate in the game ... Or 100% full trust in the treater of all the incoming bids.

The auction time should be also short because you want to switch quickly in your team. Sunday you do Paris-Roubaix, but for AGR the week after, you want a different team.
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Offline Garfield

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 12:35:14 PM »
There is zero chance of implementing blind auctions.

Reminder: you lose every rider after every race they participated in. Therefore: yes, super quick auctions. (Nobody has any riders for Sunday's GW after Friday's E3.) That's doable. E.g. each auction takes 24 hours (plus 10 minutes extension by a new bid), during which each DS can place... only a single bid?

9 riders per team is the most thematic IMO.
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Offline davy duck

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2016, 05:43:55 PM »
Pfjew. Every auction takes 24h?
That means before every race be quasi the whole time online to follow your riders who you are bidding for. And if you lost them searching for others. That is not possible.
And what with time difference?
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Offline Garfield

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 06:36:09 PM »
Pfjew. Every auction takes 24h?

Like I said, more often than not you will do just fine WITHOUT buying any riders.
You can buy 1, or 2, or 3, and still win a race easily.
For example, I'm pretty sure Sagan will go for around 150-200 for every monument.
He wins? Congratulations on your profit. He finishes 3rd or lower? Big loss!

That means before every race be quasi the whole time online to follow your riders who you are bidding for. And if you lost them searching for others. That is not possible.

Like the actual stock market, this league would be very dynamic. You wouldn't control the entire market. The single (maybe double?) bid per team per rider would ensure you make decent bids for riders you believe in, instead of just constant low-balling half the peloton.

And what with time difference?

We all live in Europe and USA. If we finish auctions at 23:00 CET the day before the race, nobody misses out.
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Offline Teton

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2016, 01:26:08 PM »
Count me in! I'll be glad to help too.
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Offline TERatcliffe26

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2016, 05:13:54 PM »
Yh im in
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Offline davy duck

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 06:40:53 AM »
you convinced me on some points.
But I regret the fact that you loose all your riders after a race.

If your team stays formed, you could anticipate by buying a rider very early, and cheap.
Of course he takes a place in your squad.

To prevent that I buy Sagan on 1 January and keep him all year you could assign 1 race to the rider.
So I buy on 1January Nibali for Giro d'Italia. That means Nibali is in my squad until end may, and he is unavailable for everybody else. But he will only score points for me in Giro.
This way it's appropriate to have 12-15 places in your squad.

If you lose all your riders after every race, 3 places are enough.

Ending the auction at a certain moment, will always advantage the guys who are online at that time.
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Offline Garfield

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 07:38:00 AM »
To prevent that I buy Sagan on 1 January and keep him all year you could assign 1 race to the rider.
So I buy on 1January Nibali for Giro d'Italia. That means Nibali is in my squad until end may, and he is unavailable for everybody else. But he will only score points for me in Giro.

Now it's more like Occupy Wall Street, every single big rider gets occupied before the season starts.

If you lose all your riders after every race, 3 places are enough.

Note that if your score is CQ-cost, the squad size could even be unlimited. Joel will buy 872 riders, everybody else 2-5, and it'll still be a close contest.

Ending the auction at a certain moment, will always advantage the guys who are online at that time.

Not if you place a real value bid before, instead of low-balling.
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Offline oliveira

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Re: New league for 2017: Wall Street Cycling
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2016, 01:58:58 PM »
This game has great potential!

My 2c:
- We should implement an automatic cut on budget if someone doesn't place a bet in, say, the month (5-10% of the score?);
- We should get a minimum bet higher than the points a rider get just for finishing the race. (10 at WT events, 30 at GT's?)
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