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Author Topic: 2017 rules  (Read 6267 times)

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Offline davy duck

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 08:46:50 AM »
Idea of teton is perfect.
And totally into Joel's thoughts about the neo-pro's and the calendar.

The more races the better in my opinion. That gives the conti's some worth. And as those smaller races are rewarded with less points, no harm is done there. And I fill in the results (when I have the time) with pleasure.
I would keep it objective though. Alle thr WT races and the 1.HC and the 2.HC - races.
If smaller races have a lot of good riders, it means they are there to prepare the big races. So not really relevant.
But as I said, if you ad ruta del sol, etc, it's awarded with less points.



I'm not sure on this keeping a rider scenario. Those who had the early picks on the neo pros have already had a stunning rider at 30k for two years. Those who had 15th pick for instance have absolutely no chance. Seems a bit unfair. Maybe we can do it but would have to exclude at least the first round of neo draft picks. I can definitely see the fairness if someone had bid 30k and won the auction for a rider who came good and being able to keep that rider for an extra year seems like a nice and fair bonus, or indeed if it had been a second round draft pick.

On the calendar I think we should keep to HC and WT - all races of those ilks including the lesser ones. The more races the better or we will end up making many Conti riders not worth the bother (and we need them with so many managers). I also think we should include some races like Algarve/Andalucia which have good fields - we could probably add 10 or so realistically.

I'm also happy with the 30 squad rule, it forces people to look a bit further and discover riders - if we only had 15 then prices would shoot up for those 15 riders. I think it's fun getting a couple of bargains/unknowns and following their careers.

I don't think much is wrong with the main game at all.
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Offline Garfield

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 09:41:15 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong:
- most people above lean towards keeping WT+HC (which surprises me a lot, it's so random how those small tours in Norway, Utah, and Luxembourg play out, rewarding guys like Lammertink, Moscon, Paterski, or Morton with more CQ points than finishing a Grand Tour 9th in GC pays)
- most people above lean towards introducing a single extension (of one kind of another) into the existing main game, thus per se there is currently no demand for an additional league (e.g. one with 1-year contracts only but unlimited extensions, or one based on constant selling and buying riders like in a stock market as proposed some months ago)



Even so, would you be interested in joining if I decided to implement either/both (1y+extend, maybe even specifically tuned for youngsters only, and/or Wall Street Cycling) in a simplified version with smaller rosters, just like CR/RC/QF function already? :agent:



except riders that were picked in the first round of neo-pros (i.e. excludes those who have already had 2 years on a team at 30k).

Just to point it out: please note till now we were specifically discussing extending those super-rookies.
Your exclusion idea is very different, and in fact somewhat interesting.
(I'm not saying yay or nay, just clarifying.)

I'm not sure on this keeping a rider scenario. Those who had the early picks on the neo pros have already had a stunning rider at 30k for two years. Those who had 15th pick for instance have absolutely no chance. Seems a bit unfair. Maybe we can do it but would have to exclude at least the first round of neo draft picks. I can definitely see the fairness if someone had bid 30k and won the auction for a rider who came good and being able to keep that rider for an extra year seems like a nice and fair bonus, or indeed if it had been a second round draft pick.

Again, just here to point out some facts:
1. If you're picking 15th, it means you finished the previous season on the podium, thus you rock. No help needed.
2. Don't you think those top picks are such sure-fire superstars. Here are our draft first round results:

2014:
1.1   :Argos: mrmetsman Davide Villella
1.2   :Katusha: everseeker Jan Polanc
1.3   :Garmin: onyourwheel Nathan Brown
1.4   :Lampre: Jux1893 Lawson Craddock
1.5   :Lotto: Ace Dylan Van Baarle
1.6   :SaxoBank: LostViking Nick Van Der Lijke
1.7   :Orica: alexlnumber1 Matej Mohorič
1.8   :Belkin: Kazistuta Damien Howson
1.9   :Movistar: al_pacino Simon Yates
1.10   :QuickStep: GTF Daan Olivier
1.11   :BMC: Ghedebrav Adam Yates
1.12   :Cannondale: Fus87 Julian Alaphilippe
1.13   :AG2R: RenoDelft Bakhtiyar Kozhatayev
1.14   :FDJ: PPDB fignon Rick Zabel
1.15   :Europcar: TERatcliffe26 Jasper Stuyven
1.16   :RadioShack: Garfield Lasse Norman Hansen

2015:
1.1   :Lotto: Ace Magnus Cort Nielsen
1.2   :Orica: alexlnumber1 Miguel Angel Lopez Moreno
1.3   :Cannondale: cranky Louis Vervaeke
1.4   :BMC: Ghedebrav Dylan Teuns
1.5   :SaxoBank: LostViking Sondre Holst Enger
1.6   :QuickStep: GTF Caleb Ewan
1.7   :Europcar: TERatcliffe26 Kristoffer Skjerping
1.8   :Movistar: al_pacino Pierre-Roger Latour
1.9   :RadioShack: Garfield Tiesj Benoot
1.10  :Garmin: RedskinsNo.1 Sven Erik Bystrm
1.11  :Katusha: glomser Phil Bauhaus
1.12  :Belkin: oliveira Eduard-Michael Grosu
1.13  :Argos: BluesBrothers Thomas Boudat
1.14  :Lampre: Joelsim Stefan Kng
1.15  :FDJ: LosBrolin Mike Teunissen
1.16  :AG2R: derrudi Marc Soler

Btw I'm not going to rush into any decision here. For now I mostly like the idea of making it a single extension. This has two nice consequences: relatively elegant as a rule (similar to the single drop), and very limited amount to manual labour, which in turn invites unlimited imagination: minimum salary jump of xyz or xyz%, including/excluding 1st-rounders, or maybe even some crazy formula to arrive at the new salary: say (210k-salary)*CQscore/(age^2) :P
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:10:05 AM by Garfield »
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Offline Joelsim

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 10:19:29 AM »
Yes I think pretty much everything is agreeable with me. But I do feel quite strongly that someone who has scored huge points for 2 years already on a neo pro shouldn't have the benefit of another year on the cheap on that same rider, even if it's 210k rather than 30k. Benoot, Ewan and the like are far too cheap at that price and would go for much more money in auction. Plus, it takes a young rider out of the bidding for everyone else for a third year.

Alaphilippe was 1m, Lopez 430, the Yates brothers huge amounts too. To offer for something like 210k for a Benoot is way too beneficial. But it does seem fair to be able to reward a manager for a good one year pick with a little bonus year albeit at a higher salary.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:27:11 AM by Joelsim »
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Offline Joelsim

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2016, 10:30:42 AM »
By the way what do you think about the scenario where a DS doesn't carry on and all those riders going back into the pot? Rather like Tinkoff and IAM in real life?
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Offline Joelsim

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 10:37:42 AM »
I also would like to be able to drop one rider during the actual season too to get your money back.

Take the example of Degenkolb. Big money, got injured, completely ruins the manager's season. I know it isn't like real life but it's only a game and that probably doesn't help keep the manager's interest level up.

Other examples being Malori, or fingers crossed Broeckx, Demoitie (RIP).

Call it 'playing your joker' which everyone can do once a year on any rider.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:45:52 AM by Joelsim »
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Offline Garfield

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2016, 10:45:37 AM »
I also would like to be able to drop one rider during the actual season too to get your money back.

Pretty useless, the market is 99% dry in December.



In the future, please try to write a single post at a time, not three. You can edit it all you want. That saves a lot of scrolling, and a lot of email notifications.
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Offline Canto

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2016, 10:55:14 AM »
I like the idea of having a league WT, with the same rule than today (maybe with less riders and without HC, drop possible, no extension), and one "contract type" league with some HC races (and why not some good 1 races, as some HC are really useless). You can do a auction draft for the neo pro each year, like this we will not talk about 30k contract for a very good young rider. At the end of each season, having a limited number of contract extension possible, with a salary increase.
But I like Dynasty Fantasy so probably looking more into this direction. In the same time I play also with Road CC and Velogames and like the principle of building your team for only one race (or Tour). Like this you have new challenge every time.
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Offline Garfield

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2016, 03:32:27 PM »
I like your thinking!

Btw, the more I think about it, the clearer the following becomes to me. Prepare to be surprised:

IF we end up creating yet another league with auctions of all cyclists independently from their age, and IF extensions become a big part of that new project, I will NOT introduce any extensions into the existing game. We want each one of our leagues to have its special blend.

The new league discussion has now been moved to a new thread :judge:
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Offline Garfield

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2016, 03:41:32 PM »
Reminder - 2 things still under discussion here:

1. Calendar

2. I'd like to design every single league's winner jersey icons which the champions will boast right next to their username for the next 12 months. Please help me design them!

UCI - :UCI:
CR - maybe :GreenJersey:?
RC - :WCRJ:
Cobbles - maybe :WhiteJersey:?
Ardennes - maybe :PolkaJersey:?
Giro - pink
Tour - :YellowJersey:
Vuelta - red
Invitational - ???
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Offline TERatcliffe26

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2016, 05:36:13 PM »
I haven't been on for a while, seen that you have opened threads re the new game. Agree with Joel re: extending the neo's contracts on the cheap as it were. I wouldn't be opposed to 1 year extensions of other riders between 30-200k being extened.

The mountains Jersey from la Vuelta would fit well for the cobbles imo. White Jersey for the Invitational?

In the main im quite happy with the main game as it is. Also like the WT+HC calendar
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