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Author Topic: 2017 rules  (Read 5261 times)

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Offline Canto

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2017 rules
« on: September 08, 2016, 08:30:04 AM »
As this 2016 season nearly over, I would like to suggest an open topic about next year rules.
It is my first year (ok half-year), but I already have one remark about the contract rule.
I found a bit annoying to have some good guys we bet on at the start or during the season, for which we did not invest a lot (so they had only a one year contract), and we can't keep them in our team.
I would suggest to be able to give them a contract extension (limited number of extension per team, only one extension possible per rider, increase of the yearly salary by 150% for example). So I put the idea on the table to see your thoughts about. Thanks

Offline davy duck

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2016, 09:14:46 AM »
I like somewhere your idea.
Butt:
- I think it's difficult to accept that the owners of gaviria, ewan and benoot, extend their contract at 150%. Meaning that they pay next year 50k for them. Perhaps make exceptions for the free youth picks ...
- The whole thing is based on demand vs. supply. But it's indeed regrettable that when you "discover" a rider early in his career and cheap, you don't get the big win the year after when he really breaks through. And in real life, when a rider is out of contract, he will move to the team that pays him the most. We could stay loyal to that idea. So it feels not okay to "force" a rider to stay in your team, while he could make more money elsewhere.

hobbling on the 2 ideas.

Offline Garfield

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 09:45:04 AM »
I've been thinking about it (and discussing with a bunch of you) for some years now, and these have usually been the conclusions:



Idea 1: Keeping riders as a fixed rate (say: 1y, 100% increase with a minimum of 200k)

Pro: pride since you discovered him
Con: less active league (fewer auctions), or even a broken one if another Baby-Sagan comes through the ranks in a year or two?



Idea 2: Loyalty discount (i.e. you bid normally, but after you win your own guy, 10%/20% discount kicks in)

Pro: money savings if you discovered him
Con: extra manual work for the mods, and possibly a bad taste in your mouth if somebody overbids clearly just to annoy you



Idea 3: implement both/either of the above in a brand new league instead, maybe even with more emphasis on talent discovery? (Would you play both?)



Some more general remarks: we rarely "discover" huge talents based on our brilliance alone. I stumbled across Benoot merely because I happened to notice he was riding strongly as Vervaeke's mule in his last u23 year. And let's face it, his ascension to instant stardom was so sudden it even shocked his own team. And Ewan/Gaviria always were clear superstars in the making, so there was also very little genius involved. And none of them will owe their current teams any favours when chasing their first fat contract soon IRL. Also, most of us has almost zero knowledge/interest in u23 races. Also, these are easier to follow in the media if you're Belgian than if you're Russian. Possibly, frustration could kick in if you've been tanking for that next Sicard and then he becomes... well, the next Sicard :P Interestingly, this issue gets discussed a lot in other sports too: should the NBA fantasy owners follow college ball religiously? No clear answers. Just brainstorming here :)



PS
Since the discussion started already: what's our calendar next year? The WorldTour grew A LOT, so it would be very transparent to limit ourselves to just those races without any subjective manual tweaks. I'm tempted. Sorry, Paris-Tours?



PPS
I'd like to design every single league's winner jersey icons which the champions will boast right next to their username for the next 12 months. Please help me design them!

UCI - :UCI:
CR - maybe :GreenJersey:?
RC - :WCRJ:
Cobbles - maybe :WhiteJersey:?
Ardennes - maybe :PolkaJersey:?
Giro - pink
Tour - :YellowJersey:
Vuelta - red
Invitational - ???
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 11:07:30 AM by Garfield »
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Offline Canto

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2016, 12:00:42 PM »
I like the idea of having a World Tour Events, for which you redraft teams each year (maybe with less riders ?), and having a "more guided one" toward talent scouting and "dynasty / contract" style. This one could go deeper into the ranking and events (HC and why not level 1). I am ready to be more active in this type of league.

Offline glomser

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2016, 02:30:11 PM »
I think it's OK to keep a rider, but I would suggest that you only can give 1 rider an extention of his contract (like we do with letting only one rider go with an extended contract)

I also suggest that this rider only can get an 1 year contract and that this contract cannot been extended again. (otherwise the better riders never come into the auction anymore)

About the salary I think that will be doubled, (As we're talking about riders with a contract of 1 year that will be getting max 300 then) I'm not sure if there should be a minimum cap for salary.

For the season I would suggest this:

http://sport.infonu.nl/overige-sport/169463-wielerkalender-2017-wedstrijden-en-teams.html#wielerkalender-2017

Maybe without the national championschip 17 - 25 juni

And the WC will be RR and ITT.

About the contractlenght that Canto suggest I think the current style is OK, and maybe one with only 1 year contracts. I would then suggest to limit the team to 15 riders and a reduced amount of money to spent... 
Winner Quick Fix Giro 2017

Offline Teton

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2016, 02:54:01 PM »
Thoughts on World Tour.

Keep current rules, including team size, budget, NeoPro draft, number of riders, and teams.

Current 1 drop is fine.

Add 1 contract extension, 1 year max, with a minimum salary of 210k (which is what you would have sided them for if you would of had them on a two year contract).
Only cyclist which are 200k or under are eligible. This makes tracking easy as the since the minimum salary make them ineligible for the an extension in the following year.
By keeping the available cyclist eligible for the extension limited to cyclist currently under contracts of less then 200k, it will not allow the hoarding of the very top cyclist.

Firm deadline in advance of drafts for (1) drop and (1) extension.

Replace Colorado on the schedule.
Quick Ardennes 2019  - 1st
Cyclopaths 2018 1st
Quick Vuelta 2018  1st
Quick Tour 2018  1st
Quick Giro 2018 - 2nd
Quick Ardennes 2018  - 1st
Rainbow Cup 2017 - 2nd
Quick Cobbles 2016 - 1st
Rainbow Cup 2016 - 1st

Offline Garfield

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 04:01:50 PM »
Add 1 contract extension, 1 year max, with a minimum salary of 210k (which is what you would have sided them for if you would of had them on a two year contract).
Only cyclist which are 200k or under are eligible. This makes tracking easy as the since the minimum salary make them ineligible for the an extension in the following year.
By keeping the available cyclist eligible for the extension limited to cyclist currently under contracts of less then 200k, it will not allow the hoarding of the very top cyclist.

Ingenious and simple, I wish I thought about it myself!
In short: fixed 1y, 210k extension for any one cyclist who earned less than that before.
Let's see what others think.
Skype: stefek-burczymucha
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Offline Joelsim

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 05:12:13 AM »
I'm not sure on this keeping a rider scenario. Those who had the early picks on the neo pros have already had a stunning rider at 30k for two years. Those who had 15th pick for instance have absolutely no chance. Seems a bit unfair. Maybe we can do it but would have to exclude at least the first round of neo draft picks. I can definitely see the fairness if someone had bid 30k and won the auction for a rider who came good and being able to keep that rider for an extra year seems like a nice and fair bonus, or indeed if it had been a second round draft pick.

On the calendar I think we should keep to HC and WT - all races of those ilks including the lesser ones. The more races the better or we will end up making many Conti riders not worth the bother (and we need them with so many managers). I also think we should include some races like Algarve/Andalucia which have good fields - we could probably add 10 or so realistically.

I'm also happy with the 30 squad rule, it forces people to look a bit further and discover riders - if we only had 15 then prices would shoot up for those 15 riders. I think it's fun getting a couple of bargains/unknowns and following their careers.

I don't think much is wrong with the main game at all.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 05:39:07 AM by Joelsim »

Offline Joelsim

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 05:42:48 AM »
On another note, I wonder if it is worth any teams that aren't renewed for 2017 (i.e. let's assume I didn't want to play next year (obviously I do though, but if I didn't), then all of the riders on the BMC team go back on to the market. Any noobs start with a clean sheet.

Offline Joelsim

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Re: 2017 rules
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 05:51:52 AM »
So, in summary.

Rider extension.

One rider from each team worth less than 200k can be extended at 210k for a season, except riders that were picked in the first round of neo-pros (i.e. excludes those who have already had 2 years on a team at 30k).


 

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