Official RC Vote on Clearing Extension Loopholes

[Colby]

Per the math behind a prospect extension, a P-2011 contract could not be extended after the season via prospect extension since the books move to 2012.  This is how we handled it last year.  That is also why P-2010 contracts were ineligible for prospect extensions.

[rcankosy]

How is that any different than extensions for non-prospects that take affect in 2012?

[Colby]

How is that any different than extensions for non-prospects that take affect in 2012?

Excellent point.  I think much of the problem is solved when we have some of the other rules take place.  We don't want to see this sign and trade of expiring contracts after the season.  We should have rights to the prospects, so perhaps those extensions should kick in right away?  A GM would wait till after the season on an expiring prospect contract for three reasons...

1) The player is a rental and they don't want to resign them.
2) Their MV may be less than $4m meaning a regular contract would be better.  Perhaps the GM thinks the player's value will go down?
3). The GM is afraid the player may get hurt and is holding off from a deal.

[rcankosy]

I know you want consistency, but when in doubt think real life and the answer becomes clear.  In real life, prospects inevitably sign extensions after their initial deals expire, because they have not accrued the service time to become free agents.  That's very different than an expiring contract on a veteran who is immediately a free agent after the last game of the season.  For the sake of simplicity, we could consider any player on a non-prospect contract to be a "veteran" and therefore not eligible to be traded after his contract expires.

Maybe I look at it differently than some other people, but I always try to err on a side of realism and simplicity when suggesting rules changes.  Hopefully, we can wrap up these issues soon. 

[Canada8999]

I know you want consistency, but when in doubt think real life and the answer becomes clear.  In real life, prospects inevitably sign extensions after their initial deals expire, because they have not accrued the service time to become free agents.  That's very different than an expiring contract on a veteran who is immediately a free agent after the last game of the season.  For the sake of simplicity, we could consider any player on a non-prospect contract to be a "veteran" and therefore not eligible to be traded after his contract expires.

Maybe I look at it differently than some other people, but I always try to err on a side of realism and simplicity when suggesting rules changes.  Hopefully, we can wrap up these issues soon.

 

[lp815]

We'll vote on the timing of rules after they are established...

Voting thus far
1) Management of salary caps for not just current year but future 5-6 years.  This is something we are doing in New Era and is much more realistic for a franchises' books.  It also prevents GMs from financially ruining future years with cash exchanges.

Nay.

YAY - Roy, Dan (doesn't care on %, wants this to be called the 2010 Angels rule.)
NAY - Colby (vote changed as representative of small market teams), Howe (would approve 30% above cap), Ben

2) Should regular contract extensions for expired prospect contracts be the only type of extensions allowable for expired contracts in the offseason?  If so, should we adopt a short window to do this such as two weeks?

Yay, beginning of free agency.

YAY - Roy (deadline of January 1st / FA), Colby (begin of FA), Dan, Ben
NAY - Howe

3) I am suggesting a rule change that says contract extensions can be done one of two ways.  The first is a traditional extension which is only allowable in the last year of the current contract.  The extension is added on in future years.  For example, a 2011 contract could get a three year extension starting in 2012 and ending in 2014.   The second is our current type of extensions which is essentially a new contract overwriting the old one.  We have minimum and maximum years protecting this new contract status.

Yay.

YAY - Roy (any time), Colby (one year prior), Dan, Ben (only do actual extensions one year prior)
NAY - Howe (wants to keep it simple, but allow 6-year deal)

4) Prince Fielder Rule - Should regular extensions on expiring contracts not be allowed AFTER the season?  For example, an extension in November 2011 for what was a 2011 contract. It really isn't feasible to have this for such a realistic league.  This puts more honus on the trade deadline and free agency.

Yay.

YAY - Colby, Roy, Dan (I believe you are for this), Howe, Ben (your vote was no, but your explanation suggested these should not be allowed, a lot of double negatives to sort through)
NAY -

5) In addition to our 60-day NTC rule, any players signed to extensions and FA contracts in the offseason cannot be traded until June 1st the following year.

Yay.

YAY - Roy, Dan, Howe, Colby
NAY -

6) Dan's suggeston of allowing to extend players to salaries less than their current, effective after their current contract.  This is an addendum on to Rule #3.

Abstain, would like further discussion.

YAY - Dan
NAY - Colby (have them go to FA if you want lower salary), Howe

7) Ben's suggestion of having an extension deadline on players with expiring contracts coincide with the trade deadine (approximately 60 days before end of season).

Yay.

YAY - Ben, Colby, Dan
NAY - Howe

[Orange Country]

just delete this post whomever gets to it first.

[Canada8999]

If #3 passes which seems likely, I am in favor of looking one season ahead.  If we're making extensions that apply to a future season only, we need to regulate that season as well as the current season.

[rcankosy]

As far as # 1, I could live with either a "hard" cap or one that allows a team to be over by a small % (preferably no higher than 10%).

As far as # 2, I just noticed that it refers to "regular" extensions for prospects.  For the record, I am in favor of granting market extensions after the season.

As far as # 7, why is it necessary?  If the Prince Fielder rule passes, # 7 becomes redundant, because the player couldn't be traded after the deadline anyway.  Am I missing something?

[Colby]

Jake is against the first rule.  Ben is for it leaving a 4-2 majority with the Commissioner against the rule.  This puts it on the fence.  I am willing to go for the rule (I did introduce it), but have a 30% buffer for future years to give small market teams some flexibility in dealing contracts.

It looks like every rule will pass except for the 6th one which is currently up in the air and requiring a couple more votes.  We need to discuss timing and make sure language is correct.

Rule #1 - Future Cap Management inspired by the 2010 Angels: Management of salary caps for not just current year but future 5-6 years.  This is something we are doing in New Era and is much more realistic for a franchises' books.  It also prevents GMs from financially ruining future years with cash exchanges.

YAY - Roy (wants 10% hard cap), Dan (doesn't care on %, wants this to be called the 2010 Angels rule.), Ben (wants it now), Colby (would approve 30% above cap), Howe (would approve 30% above cap)
NAY - Jake

LANGUAGE - This rule will only pass with a buffer.  For example, if the Pirates’ cap in 2013 is expected to be $62m then the 30% buffer allows the team to have a projected salary based on current contracts of $80.6m in 2013.

TIMING – We have a trade deadline looming in seven weeks.  There are several franchises that would be affected by this rule (Pirates, Athletics, Reds, Rockies all come to mind).  I feel like the timing of the introduction of this rule depends solely on rule #3 since the introduction of rule #3 requires a different setup to Official Rosters.

Rule #2 – Signing window for expired prospect contracts: Should regular contract extensions for expired prospect contracts be the only type of extensions allowable for expired contracts in the offseason?  If so, should we adopt a short window to do this such as two weeks?

YAY - Roy (deadline of January 1st / FA), Colby (begin of FA), Dan, Ben, Jake (begin of FA)
NAY – Howe

LANGUAGE – The majority appears to have a consensus that this rule should include language stating that expired prospect contracts can be held on the books with a signing deadline for a normal contract at the beginning of FA.  I think one week before is appropriate to allow the EC to update everything. 

TIMING - Do we want to introduce this rule immediately?  It truly has very little effect.  A guy like CI Daric Barton, $0.5m (P-2011) would not be eligible for a prospect extension after the end of the season.  This rule simply keeps Barton on his team’s books and allows a regular extension.  The team has rights to signing the player, but said player cannot be traded thanks to the Prince Fielder rule.

Rule #3 – True Extensions: I am suggesting a rule change that says contract extensions can be done one of two ways.  The first is a traditional extension which is only allowable in the last year of the current contract.  The extension is added on in future years.  For example, a 2011 contract could get a three year extension starting in 2012 and ending in 2014.   The second is our current type of extensions which is essentially a new contract overwriting the old one.  We have minimum and maximum years protecting this new contract status.

YAY - Roy (any time), Colby (one year prior), Dan, Ben (only do actual extensions one year prior), Jake
NAY - Howe (wants to keep it simple, but allow 6-year deal)

LANGUAGE – I believe Ben and I prefer to see true extensions only allowed for players in the last year of their contract.  This rule does not eliminate our current extensions.  We should adopt language that differentiates between a New Contract and a Contract Extension.

TIMING – Rule #1’s timing depends on this rule.  Do we introduce this now or later?  I say let this be effective immediately upon resolution of this Official RC thread.

Rule #4 - Prince Fielder Rule: Contract extensions on expired veteran contracts not be allowed after the regular season ends.  It really isn't feasible to have this for such a realistic league.  This puts more onus on the trade deadline and free agency.

YAY - Colby, Roy, Dan (I believe you are for this), Howe, Ben (your vote was no, but your explanation suggested these should not be allowed, a lot of double negatives to sort through), Jake
NAY –

LANGUAGE – Rule #7 proposed by Ben has been lumped into this ruling.  Everyone but Howe agrees with Ben that we should keep it simple and add a rule that says veteran players (non-prospect contract) with expiring contracts have a signing deadline of July 31st.  This coincides with the trade deadline for simplicity.

TIMING – This was the culprit of people questioning our contract rules.  I would like to see this effective immediately.

Rule #5 – June 1st window: In addition to our 60-day NTC rule, any players signed to extensions and FA contracts in the offseason cannot be traded until June 1st the following year.

YAY - Roy, Dan, Howe, Colby, Jake
NAY -

LANGUAGE – The addendum of the Prince Fielder rule makes this an easy rule.  Essentially, if you give a new contract or extend a player between the trade deadline and the following April 1st (60 days prior to June 1st) then the player cannot be traded until June 1st.  This applies to free agents as well, but only for those signed during the offseason.  For example, a scrub FA signed in the closing months of the season could be traded before the June 1st opening.

TIMING – I vote for immediately.

Rule #6 – Extending players less than MV: Dan's suggestion of allowing to extend players to salaries less than their current, effective after their current contract. 

YAY - Dan
NAY - Colby (have them go to FA if you want lower salary), Howe, Jake (abstained), Roy

We need a couple more votes on this.  If you want a player at less than MV then compete for them in FA.  Most veteran players in MLB will see what there is out there for them in FA.