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Author Topic: Call me crazy (aka additional leagues brainstorming)  (Read 10705 times)

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Offline Garfield

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Call me crazy (aka additional leagues brainstorming)
« on: November 07, 2015, 03:32:23 AM »
Edit: two new leagues created based on the discussion below:
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?board=3318
http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?board=3307



We're bigger than ever, we're more active than ever, we're having fun... how about another cycling league? ProFSL has a million baseball/basketball/hockey/football leagues, yet only one soccer league (by yours truly) and only one cycling league. I could set up another forum and another spreadsheet rather quickly, I think.


Proposed roster format: something very original, so that there is no overlap with this one. Ideas that come to mind, separately or in combination:
League A. national teams, where we first get a number of riders from our nation (with a combined 2015 score cap)
League B. national teams, where we first bid money on the nation we want, but later get a 50% discount when bidding on riders from our own country
League C. realistic balanced teams where everybody has 1 GT contender, 1 top sprinter, 1 young sprinter, 1 time trialist, 1 geezer, 1 injury survivor, 1 wasted talent, 1 surprise transfer... (would start by agreeing and announcing who the X GT contenders etc. are, X being the total number of participants)
League Z. something completely cuckoo, say... one rider per team born each year? (16 riders per team: 1995+, 1978-, plus the 14 in between)


Proposed calendar & scoring: either something original and wacky OR the exact same as here so that there is zero added in-season maintenance.


Proposed Start: December 15, when the dust settles over auctions here, yet there is enough time before TDU, and we're bored waiting for Xmas.


May the brainstorming begin :disco:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 10:02:37 AM by Garfield »
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Offline Ghedebrav

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2015, 03:48:06 AM »
You're crazy. But yes, more leagues = good.

An idea that has been rattling round the airless void that is my mind is a 'lowball' league. Poker players among you will recognise the term as describing the heirachy of winning hands being turned upside-down, so the weakest hand wins.

League D. So we would all pick squads of riders who rarely start, often crash, and never finish with the leaders. Lowest score at the end of the season wins.

I think we'd have to restrict it to World Tour teams only, maybe squads of fifteen. We'd all have a hard time processing the value of riders in this system, so better would be a neo-pro style draft for the whole squads, albeit with a much shorter clock limit.

That's my cuckoo idea anyway FWIW.

Of the OP suggestions, I like the 'realistically balanced' League C idea best, though it might be the trickiest (or most time-consuming) to do because the categories are quite subjective and some riders cross boundaries of definition.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 04:35:25 AM by Garfield »

Offline Ghedebrav

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2015, 04:07:01 AM »
League E. The more I think about the INTERnational league though...

OK- so let's imagine a system whereby we have a squad of (let's say) twenty riders. We can only have one rider of any given nationality (and no, Froome doesn't count as Kenyan). No duplicate riders between teams.

So - how to decide who gets to pick who? Blind auction. Let's say we all have a budget of 10 million Space Credits. We all have to bid on rights for twenty nations. Once all the bids are in for each nation, a draft is set up for each country bid upon, with the highest bidder given first pick and so on. In the unlikely event of tied bids (you can bid to individual creds, and I think stipulating that none of your own bids can be of equal value would also reduce the possibility of e.g. loads of one credit bids).

So a two-stage game - first the blind nation auction, then multiple drafts.

It leads to some interesting tactical choices, especially regarding nations that have one or two outstanding talents but little strength in depth, versus the traditional cycling powers (so how much more would you bid on, say, Slovakia, over the Netherlands?).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 04:34:52 AM by Garfield »

Offline Garfield

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2015, 04:21:09 AM »
You're crazy.

Look who's talking :rofl:


Lowest score at the end of the season wins.

League D - Very curious! My (minor) objections:
- as a human, I don't want to cheer others to fail.
- as a gamer, I don't want a season ruined in one day: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=27420
- as a Sunday cycling fan, I feel very incompetent building a team of dudes I've never heard of.


Of the OP suggestions, I like the 'realistically balanced' idea best, though it might be the trickiest (or most time-consuming) to do because the categories are quite subjective and some riders cross boundaries of definition.

Those would be set in stone before each season by a high committee aka the übernerds, with a quick round of feedback from others. This process as such, as well as naming the categories in the first place, could be a nice little puzzle methinks.


We can only have one rider of any given nationality (and no, Froome doesn't count as Kenyan).

FYI my original idea was to have a vast majority of your riders from ONE country. But yours is cool too, let's call it League E - INTERNATIONAL.


OK- so let's imagine a system whereby we have a squad of (let's say) twenty riders. We can only have one rider of any given nationality (and no, Froome doesn't count as Kenyan). No duplicate riders between teams.

So - how to decide who gets to pick who? Blind auction.

Or even an open one? Possibly more fun and more strategizing :disco:
I have no idea how, mechanically speaking. But I'll ask other game designers.
(The following national drafts - I'm lovin' it!)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 04:36:21 AM by Garfield »
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Offline Ghedebrav

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2015, 04:41:47 AM »
I'm on a long train journey and there's not much to look at out the window...

Re. Season ruined in one day in lowball - that's one of the reasons I'd limit it to WT only - most breakaway winning randomers are from PCT or lower (especially in .HC or WT races). I take your point about cheering on failure - I was thinking more about my unerring ability to curse riders; doing this might curse my picks with success!

Re. Blind auction - honestly I find these things fascinating as a dilettante game theorist. But for a practical reason too - it would make the draft order rank a lot easier to figure out.


Offline Garfield

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2015, 04:43:13 AM »
Allowed myself to edit our previous posts with labels of different ideas, so that we can refer to them more clearly.

Also, another:

League F - a game of expectations: you have e.g. 10000 or 20000 points. It's all just one big draft, where every person chooses one rider (or three? or five?) whenever it's their turn. The cost of all riders is set in stone by the higher one of their 2014/2015 CQ scores.

Note that this can be combined easily with any of League A, B, C, D, or E.
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Offline Garfield

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2015, 04:47:15 AM »
Re. Blind auction - honestly I find these things fascinating as a dilettante game theorist. But for a practical reason too - it would make the draft order rank a lot easier to figure out.

I fear it would come out brutally unfair, thus ending your season within seconds. Imagine you place the majority of your money on Slovakia and Poland, yet finish juuust second and third respectively. Suddenly you're stuck with Velits, Paterski, and the 17th pick in all other countries.
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Offline Garfield

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2015, 05:02:37 AM »
League G - a league of contrasting expectations: like F above, but just 2015. You draft 2 riders, and your final score is the score of the cheaper of the pair minus the score of the more expensive one. Example: you draft Pozzovivo (972) and Landa (967). Your final score is Landa2016-Pozzovivo2016. Could be negative even :P


And yes, I should cut down on coffee :o
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Offline TERatcliffe26

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2015, 06:41:47 AM »
I like the idea of C to be honest, Abit NFL draft like in a way

Offline oliveira

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Re: Call me crazy
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2015, 07:51:59 AM »
I like the national leagues A and B. Mostly the B. And a blind auction could work, if you could only get discount in one country. You place your price for the different countries and if you win more then one country, you get the one you placed the highest bid.
 Someyhing like this:


              France  Belgium  Spain  Slovakia Poland
Player A     1M      1.7M       2M        0        100m
Player B    1.1M    1.8M       2.1M     500m   700m
Player C      1         1            1         1          1
Player D     500m   700m      1M       200m   150m
Player E     600m   500m      800m    200m   300m

Player A Belgium 1,7M
Player B Spain 2,1M
Player C Poland 1
Player D Slovakia 200m
Player E France 600m

 

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