ProFSL: Pro Fantasy Sports Leagues
Archive => Backyard NHL: Transactions => Backyard NHL => Archive => Backyard NHL: Invalid Transactions => Topic started by: norrya66 on May 26, 2012, 02:02:31 AM
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:VAN: receives:
Steve Montador, $1.5m (2012-13)
Drew Doughty, $6.9m (2013-14)
Sergei Kostitsyn, $2.0m (2013-14)
Chris Stewart, $2.5m (2013-14)
:MIN-NHL: Round 1
:MIN-NHL: receives:
David Backes, $6.1m (2012-13)
Anthony Stewart, $1.0m (2012-13)
Bobby Butler, $0.7m (2013-14)
Jean-Sebastien Giguere, $3.0m (2012-13)
Cory Schneider, $2.0m (2013-14)
I accept this deal. It is A LOT to give up for Schneider, but I like the Backes for Doughty trade because I am deep at Defense. Took a lot of back and forth, but I'm happy with the deal. Thanks!
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Butler, Anthony and Giggy were all dumps for me to make the cap work.
I truly don't wanna give Cory up, but I have two amazing starters who will do just fine next year for my team. I land a nice LW and nice RW, but most importantly I add beauty to my crippled defense. Not to mention I got a round 1 pick that will add a nice kid to my minors!!
Thanks Norray, sorry for being so difficult, it wasn't easy for me to do this, but you made it worth my while.
Bridge
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:VAN: receives:
Steve Montador, $1.5m (2012-13)
Drew Doughty, $6.9m (2013-14)
Sergei Kostitsyn, $2.0m (2013-14)
Chris Stewart, $2.5m (2013-14)
:MIN-NHL: Round 1
:MIN-NHL: receives:
David Backes, $6.1m (2012-13)
Anthony Stewart, $1.0m (2012-13)
Bobby Butler, $0.7m (2013-14)
Jean-Sebastien Giguere, $3.0m (2012-13)
Cory Schneider, $2.0m (2013-14)
I accept this deal. It is A LOT to give up for Schneider, but I like the Backes for Doughty trade because I am deep at Defense. Took a lot of back and forth, but I'm happy with the deal. Thanks!
Could norrya66 or bridgestone please post the points each player got last season and the total going each way. I am a bit on the fence with this deal.
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I'm also quite on the fence as i see giving the top young tender in the league and top power forward in backess is a lot to give. still thinking about this one...
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I agree. Backes is the best player in the deal, and for someone to get him and Schneider, and giving Doughty and a first round pick back (No one else being a real deal breaker). I just think more would need to come, especially with Luongo most likely getting traded very soon.
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I agree. Backes is the best player in the deal, and for someone to get him and Schneider, and giving Doughty and a first round pick back (No one else being a real deal breaker). I just think more would need to come, especially with Luongo most likely getting traded very soon.
This was my exact though... But I will hold my opinion until we see the numbers.
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This trade has been characterized as a Doughty for Backes swap, and also as giving up a LOT for Schneider. Having recently traded away both Montadore and Kostitsyn I found myself alarmed at the return they were netting. Further reflection had me thinking of the recent trade by Thunderblade for Niemi and the near universal agreement that a dear price must be paid for goalies. I have also considered the conversation regarding Drew's trade for Steve Mason and believe that this agreement should bear equal if not greater scrutinty. I say this first beacuse the League Comissioner has asked for more information, second because Bridgestone is new to the league, and third because of the critical importance given to Goalies.
I'll be the first person to admit that trades are speculative and rooted in the subjective as much as by the numbers. A players age, draft position, ice-time, power-play time, team, linemates, tendency toward injury, contract status, cap hit and actual production are all on the table right beside intangibles of personal preference. I believe it is every GM's right to always try to get the better end of every deal but not at the expense of league integrity. I believe this is a case where that integrity is indeed threatened and ask the trade committee to consider the following.
I've tallied the accumulated points for 11-12/10-11 and included PPG for a better reflection of productivity. Comparing the average PPG from the last two seasons back against each season separately gives a good idea of how consistent that productivity has been. Using only two seasons is a small sample size but it's what we use to rank our extensions and therefore should serve equally well to inform a trade.
Doughty for Backes - On it's own I'd imagine this trade would go through. I also believe that there would be universal agreement that Norrya wins the deal.
D - Drew Doughty, $6.9m (2013-14)
Points 105/120 PPG 1.36/1.57 AVG.PPG 1.47
Ranked 37th/24th - Doughty is well known for his performance in 09-10 but has produced at a level that should see him paid $4.2m per year. The upside is there but if he doesn't elevate his game significantly he will continue to get over-paid by $2.7m for the next two seasons.
C,RW - David Backes, $6.1m (2012-13)
Points 166/170 PPG 2.02/2.08 AVG.PPG 2.05
Ranked 10th/6th - Backes is remarkably consistent. Looking back over the past four seasons he's only missed three games and his point production is exactly where it should be to warrant a $6.1m price tag. Unless he ranks better than 10th (which is entirely possible) then his minimum extension value will be the same as his current contract.
Montadore and S.Kostitsyn for A.Stewart and Butler - Kostitsyn probably has the greatest skill but I'd call this another win for Norrya simply for the cap savings. Stewart and Butler come in at half the price with similar numbers and better combined upside.
D - Steve Montador, $1.5m (2012-13)
Points 45/92 PPG .86/1.26 AVG.PPG 1.06
Undrafted, Age 32, Career high 26 points, 6th Defence on Chicago's depth Chart.
LW - Sergei Kostitsyn, $2.0m (2013-14)
Points 91/102 PPG 1.21/1.32 AVG.PPG 1.27
Draft position 7/200, Age 25, Career high 50 points, 2nd Ranked LW for Nashville.
RW - Anthony Stewart, $1.0m (2012-13)
Points 54/93 PPG .7/1.16 AVG.PPG .93
Draft Position 1/25th, Age 27, Career high 39 points, 2nd Ranked RW for Carolina.
RW - RW - Bobby Butler, $0.7m (2013-14)
Points 46/48 PPG .82/1.32 AVG.PPG 1.07
Undrafted, Age 25, Career high 21 points, 2nd Ranked RW for Ottawa.
Chris Stewart for JS Giguere - Stewart performing at his average (100 points) is paid appropriately so it's a bonus of he regains form. That said, there is no downside to owning Giguere who's value is decent as a trade chip and would skyrocket given an injury to Varlomov. I'm inclined to call this a push but I'll give the win to Bridgestone.
RW - Chris Stewart, $2.5m (2013-14)
Points 83/118 PPG 1.05/1.9 AVG.PPG 1.48
Here's a quote about Chris Stewart: "So that’s 86 games, 32 points, two healthy scratches and a three-game suspension. Even Jonathan Cheechoo declined slower than that." Ouch. Stewart is an RFA next season so I think his best value is if he's moved to another team.
G - Jean-Sebastien Giguere, $3.0m (2012-13)
Points 149/108 PPG 4.66/3.25 AVG.PPG 3.96
Age 35, Under contract with Colorado through 2012-13.
A LOT for Corey Schneider - Given the preeminent weighting of the goaltender position in our league I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that Schneider is worth less than several 1st Round picks. This is not a win. It's not a steal. It's unacceptable.
1st Round Pick
G - Cory Schneider, $2.0m (2013-14)
Points 201/148 PPG 6.1/5.91 AVG.PPG 6
Corey Schneider is nothing less than the hottest upcoming Goalie in the game. His performance is consistent and on par with the elites. He will be a starter soon, likely next season. Having him under contract at $2.0m for two seasons would be remarkable good fortune.
Again, I think it's important to compare this deal to the recent trade for Antti Niemi. If that trade meets the standard for a starting goalie then this one does not. Also, given that the price for Steve Mason was Patrick Elias and that there was dispute that Elias wasn't compensation enough, it would be reasonable to argue that Giguere is worth a 1st on his own.
Obviously this deal can be broken down in different ways and I would encourage the principals to do so. At the end of the day the fact will remain that Norrya receives better players on better contracts. By the numbers Bridgestone would get four players averaging 1.32 PPG while Norrya gets five at 2.8 PPG. Back Schneider out of the average and it's still 2 PPG for Norrya.
I don't have a vested interest in this. I'm not on the trade committee. But I do want to see this league move forward with integrity. I'm impressed by the collective body of hockey knowledge here that I've stumbled upon and want to remain proud of my association. It is therefore that I say without malice or ill will that I do not think this trade should proceed.
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Great break down of the entire trade. I believe it is wrong in most cases to trade a goalie without getting one in return. VAN is trading two goalies, JS would be a goalie that could get traded without receiving a goalie back but Schneider is a great young goalie and a steal for 2m a season. I think something more would have to be given to VAN.
I have to :veto: the trade.
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Great break down of the entire trade. I believe it is wrong in most cases to trade a goalie without getting one in return. VAN is trading two goalies, JS would be a goalie that could get traded without receiving a goalie back but Schneider is a great young goalie and a steal for 2m a season. I think something more would have to be given to VAN.
I have to :veto: the trade.
I agree with everything that has been said above, and thus, I :veto: this trade.
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I agree Giggy could be traded for little. He has a higher salary, older and will only get a few starts next year and going forward. But Schneids is YOUNG and with the eminent departure of LOU will likely get 50-60 games on arguably the best team in the NHL. I think he is likely to rank in the Top 5 for Goalies next year, and he is on 2M contract for the next 2 years which is unheard of!!!!
I DO see what Bridge is thinking as he is stacked at Goalie and HURTING at D, but being newer to the league may not see how valuable Goalie's are in this league as well as how hard they are to attain.
With all the details in I have to :veto: this deal.
Sorry gents, nothing personal!!!
BT
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I understand where you guys are coming from.
I know Backes looks like the best player in the deal, but he was a complete cap dump from what I got from Bridgestone. He wanted to get out from under his contract. He also wanted to sure up his defense. JSG was a complete dump for him as well in my understanding.
I can see how you guys see it to be a little too lopsided. I want everyone to know that I wasn't trying to take advantage of a new owner or anything like that. I saw he had a weakness at D (a strength of mine) and he has a strength at G (a weakness of mine).
We are trying to re-work a deal. Thanks guys!
Ryan
norrya66
:MIN-NHL:
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I understand where you guys are coming from.
I know Backes looks like the best player in the deal, but he was a complete cap dump from what I got from Bridgestone. He wanted to get out from under his contract. He also wanted to sure up his defense. JSG was a complete dump for him as well in my understanding.
I can see how you guys see it to be a little too lopsided. I want everyone to know that I wasn't trying to take advantage of a new owner or anything like that. I saw he had a weakness at D (a strength of mine) and he has a strength at G (a weakness of mine).
We are trying to re-work a deal. Thanks guys!
Ryan
norrya66
:MIN-NHL:
:iatp: Thanks for the break-down as well Norry, glad you understand where everyone is coming from! :toast:
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Sorry BY members...I have been in the hospital since Friday Evening with sunstroke/severe dehydration & blisters/sunburn. Making deals while in the hospital bed under IV and gravol isn't smart which I only did cause I was so excited to be here...im very sorry again, Im no fool thats for sure and it won't happen again.
Thanks,
Bridgestone
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Trade is invalid
:veto: