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Fantasy Leagues => Armchair Fantasy Baseball: Transactions => Armchair Fantasy Baseball => MLB Leagues => Armchair Fantasy Baseball: Completed Transactions => Topic started by: chicubs33 on January 04, 2012, 11:45:05 PM
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Rays Receive:
Anibal Sanchez (SP) $3.7M
Geovany Soto (C) $3M
Brett Jackson (OF)
Trey McNutt (SP)
Cubs Receive:
Jeff Niemann (SP) $903,000
J.P. Howell (RP) $1.1M
Brandon Guyer (OF)
Alex Torres (SP)
Oscar Hernandez (C)
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Another great move for the Cubs focusing on reducing a little payroll but at the same time adding young quality talent. Although losing Sanchez and Soto will hurt the immediate success of the team the Cubs feel like Niemann can fill a roll at a lower cost in the future without losing much as far as results on the field. We feel the centerpiece to this deal is Brandon Guyer who we are proud to welcome back to the organization as well as new comer Alex Torres. In addition to that we continue to strengthen the bullpen to help the starting rotation with Howell and add to a corp of talented young catching prospects with Hernandez. Thanks to the Rays for their cooperation and looking forward to future deals.
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The Rays agree to this trade. We view this deal as a crucial step forward for our franchise. The loss of David Price in the Hanley Ramirez trade left our squad with a shortage of quality rotation arms. With Sanchez in the mix, we feel much stronger about our top 4 SPs and we won't be forced to spend big in free agency. Likewise, Soto provides much needed help at the catcher position. With so few viable catchers available in free agency, the need was apparent. Jackson was the top prospect in the Cubs system and could very well crack the Opening Day lineup if Theo keeps dealing the bad contracts out of Chicago. McNutt is also a Top 5 talent from the Cubs system and fits nicely into my stockpile of young arms.
We view Sanchez as a considerable improvement over Niemann, Soto as a considerable improvement over Howell, and Jackson as a considerable improvement over Guyer. Torres to McNutt is a small net loss and Oscar is still a few years away from contribution. Overall, it was a small dropoff for our farm system, and we picked up some salary, but we gave our team a considerable boost for this season.
Best of luck to the Cubs. This will certainly not be our last deal together.
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:iatp:
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I really prefer one side of this trade, but approvable. :iatp:
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I might be the only one but I can't approve this. IMO its not even close!
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:iatp:
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I am very on the fence for this one. Can the Rays explain why Guyer is the central piece of this deal? IMO, Jackson >> Guyer.
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Rays Receive:
Anibal Sanchez (SP) $3.7M
Geovany Soto (C) $3M
Brett Jackson (OF)
Trey McNutt (SP)
Cubs Receive:
Jeff Niemann (SP) $903,000
J.P. Howell (RP) $1.1M
Brandon Guyer (OF)
Alex Torres (SP)
Oscar Hernandez (C)
I dont see the value in this deal , Anibal is the better arm in the deal, by quite a bit, Jackson is a higher touted OF spect than Guyer is , Soto is still a solid C at a tough position to fill and under 30 still, so he is clearly more valuable than a Howell type. The Torres and Hernandez portion is so so, but not nearly enough to offset the fact the 3 best guys in the deal are all going to tampa. I dont like this deal
:veto:
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I am on the fence, but the deal is passable... :iatp:
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I get the salary dump part of this deal, but hate the way it turns out. Like h4 said, Jackson>Guyer. Its not an awful deal, but not a good one either. I'd honestly like to see the cases stated for why these players were involved a little better, because I can't say yes right now.
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:iatp:
Tampa gets better talent, Chicago gets cap relief.
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:veto:
I just feel what Tampa Bay is getting is too much.
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How often is it that a deal involving prospects is "fair"? They're called prospects for a reason...when I posted my trade block I believe I said I was trying to get rid of some money. Sanchez although may have put up the better numbers last season he's far from proven or consistant but the main reason is that he will be making a lot more money than Niemann in the next few years without too much difference in performance...yes Sanchez strikes guys out but I can fill that need elsewhere. Just because Howell and Soto were both the 2nd players listed doesn't mean their talents were being compared...Howell is a solid bullpen piece with a contract I dont mind and I dont know if Soto is still getting credit for his ROY award but he's nothing special and it isn't too far fetched to believe he'll lose his job within a year or so. Jackson and Guyer are somewhat of a wash IMO with Guyer being a little better hitter. I assume people saw that Jackson was the Cubs top prospect before the Rizzo deal and that Guyer was 6th or whatever for the Rays...that only goes to show how poor the Cubs system is and how strong the Rays are. Torres is an upgrade over McNutt and Hernandez is a long shot but a good one.
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And if everyone wants to veto it be my guest.
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How often is it that a deal involving prospects is "fair"? They're called prospects for a reason...when I posted my trade block I believe I said I was trying to get rid of some money. Sanchez although may have put up the better numbers last season he's far from proven or consistant but the main reason is that he will be making a lot more money than Niemann in the next few years without too much difference in performance...yes Sanchez strikes guys out but I can fill that need elsewhere. Just because Howell and Soto were both the 2nd players listed doesn't mean their talents were being compared...Howell is a solid bullpen piece with a contract I dont mind and I dont know if Soto is still getting credit for his ROY award but he's nothing special and it isn't too far fetched to believe he'll lose his job within a year or so. Jackson and Guyer are somewhat of a wash IMO with Guyer being a little better hitter. I assume people saw that Jackson was the Cubs top prospect before the Rizzo deal and that Guyer was 6th or whatever for the Rays...that only goes to show how poor the Cubs system is and how strong the Rays are. Torres is an upgrade over McNutt and Hernandez is a long shot but a good one.
On Guyer/Jackson, Jackson is a top 100 spec in baseball, Guyer is not. This is consensus on all of the prospect rankings sites that I know.
Please tweak the deal some if the Rays are willing to and repost.
Thanks,
MT
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For what it's worth, the Cubs are saving $4.7m here. If he were getting a player with $4.7 market value I don't think anyone would veto. I think some of you are being too picky. Everyone has their opinions on prospects and if the Cubs GM is high on Guyer I don't see why he should be denied. It's just my opinion, but I really don't think this is veto-able.
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I am not a big fan of using prospect rankings to justify a prospect value. If the Cubs GM can rationally explain why "We feel the centerpiece to this deal is Brandon Guyer who we are proud to welcome back to the organization as well as new comer Alex Torres.", then I will not veto it.
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I would like to take the opportunity to put my opinion in on this as well. Speaking on my team's behalf, I believe that we improved our squad based on the deal. However, I believe that the Cubs also made an improvement on their end as well. Here's the reasoning:
Anibal Sanchez is a solid pitcher. He has high K totals, but on his Miami team, he will need to maintain high K totals to offset the Win potential that Niemann brings to the table from TB. When you toss in the huge difference in salaries, this is essentially a net wash.
Soto is coming off of two consecutive years of diminishing returns. For a catcher, that's pretty scary. However, we run in a two catcher league and for someone like me who is planning on contending this year, I cannot do so with John Jaso and Jose Lobaton. I will take the $3M cap hit in order to secure a mid-range .250/18/80 type of catcher. In exchange, I'm giving up a top-tier MR/setup in a league that counts Holds as much as Saves. He gets him at a rate that is likely under that of the market rate in free agency or at least on par.
As far as the prospects go, Jackson is a good prospect. He has decent "average starter" upside according to most scouts. He has a hole in his swing, and that causes a lot of strikeouts. While he's working to improve those, high strikeout numbers are killer in a league that penalizes them. Toss in the fact that Guyer is likely to get PT on opening day, and Jackson has to hope that Soriano or Byrd gets dealt in order to play sometime this season, and this is more intriguing of a tradeoff than it looks.
Torres is a high upside arm that could be in the big leagues soon. McNutt is a #4 SP upside prospect by this point. Hernandez is a great hitting raw catcher that is probably a 2014 minimum ETA.
Overall, I like the value I got in this deal, but it is far from lopsided or collusionary when you consider the cap hits and the value of a Cubs "top prospect" versus a Rays "top prospect". This is a good deal made by two competent owners that are trying to improve their teams.
Beau
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Don't know if I can say it any better than Player just did but I never claimed to be getting blown out of the water with this deal. Am I expecting to now win the league after this trade? No. My team is so far from competing it's ridiculous and by doing this trade I don't think I exactly set my team back by such a large margin as some are saying. If you want to go by rankings then heres why Jackson is ranked so much higher...He's 21-22 years old who can play a very solid CF and steal a good amount of bases along with decent power. Guyer is 26, projects better as a corner OF with a little less Def. than Jackson and doesn't steal as many bases. If Guyer was the same age he would no doubt be a top 100 spec as someone stated about Jackson...he has the better overall stats IMO for what I'm looking for. Jackson's strikeout rates are high for a minor leaguer and its gonna require him to adjust his swing which can be a big problem for a young hitter. And back to the rankings thing...take Matt Moore out of the Rays prospect list and I'm getting back 2 top 5-6 prospects from the top farm system in the league. He's getting back a decent CF prospect and a guy who MIGHT be a #4-5 starter in McNutt...again the rankings of these players shows how poor the Cubs system is and how strong the Rays are if thats what you choose to go by.
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It's been well over 48 hours. By my count this trade has 5 approves and 3 vetoes. Per the voting metrics it should be passed.
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Trade Approved.
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No chance I would do this if I were Chicago, but I don't think its vetoable.
:iatp:
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No chance I would do this if I were Chicago, but I don't think its vetoable.
:iatp:
I'm glad we have the committee up and running, but I'm fairly sure this one was Approved and Processed via the previous setup.
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I'm glad we have the committee up and running, but I'm fairly sure this one was Approved and Processed via the previous setup.
It seemed to me that that should have been the case, but Kenny hasn't moved this thread to the "Completed Transactions" section, so I wasn't sure.
I just figured I'd throw my vote on here.
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I'll put my 2 cents worth in also, just in case Kenny is waiting on us.
:iatp:
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:iatp: Since we are voting on this
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The Trade Committee's ruling:
3 Approves
0 Vetoes
It has been over 72 hours since this trade has been under the review process.
This trade has been officially approved by the committee.
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Processed as Transaction 449-450.