ProFSL: Pro Fantasy Sports Leagues
Fantasy Leagues => Armchair Fantasy Baseball: Transactions => Armchair Fantasy Baseball => MLB Leagues => Armchair Fantasy Baseball: Invalid Transactions => Topic started by: chrisetc21 on September 25, 2013, 12:51:06 AM
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Pirates pay $1.9 million for Royals 2nd and 5th round picks in 2013 draft.
Trade works for me as I have a lot of cash to spend and I'm looking to add additional draft picks.
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Royals accept, We are strapped for cash and got good value for the picks. Thanks to chrisetc21 for the good dealings.
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:iatp:
Cash for picks. Wow.
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I don't honestly know how to evaluate picks in relation to cash, so I guess I have to approve unless someone has a legit argument against to sway me otherwise. :iatp:
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I honestly just looked at the slot values for the picks in real-life and asked for a bit more because of our higher caps...not sure if that is the best way, but it seems fair to me.
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I personally don't like the idea of just trading cash for draft picks but this isn't really that bad.
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I approve, but would have paid more for those picks.
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I just don't know how we are going to figured this into our formula. I think it might set up a bad precedent for later deals.
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Looking at the rules, look at the part in red, as I believe they are in play here:
Trades
Any two or more teams may trade players between the end of the regular season and July 31st. When an agreement is made, the proposed trade must be posted under the Transaction board, with all parties involved posting a reply stating that said trade has been accepted. A short explanation of the reasoning behind the trade for each team involved also needs to accompany the post.
Any free agent signed in the offseason may not be traded before June 15th of the following season.
Picks from the Amateur Drafts may be traded.
Cash for the current season may be traded. If the trade is during the off-season, then cash may be traded for the upcoming season. Cash for future seasons may also be traded if the amount is no greater than the salaries of the players involved.
All players involved must be named at the time of the trade announcement. Players may NOT be named later.
Note
Players are not allowed to be named later, unlike MLB, in order to prevent potential issues regarding what type of player was agreed upon for the PTBNL.
The trade will be disallowed if it puts any of the teams above the salary cap, or over the roster limit, unless there is an accompanying transaction that will correct this. The trade must explicitly state the accompanying transaction in order for the trade to be valid. All trades that are legal will be reviewed by the League for integrity. There is a 48-hour period to review, with the countdown beginning when the information is forwarded to the committee.
The commissioner will be in charge of ruling on each trade. He will thoroughly and carefully look
through every trade and consider every angle while reviewing a trade. There are guidelines as
well.
1. Any league member can comment and review a trade as well, posting all thoughts (by
members only), which will be taken into consideration while reviewing a trade. Any postings on
trades will be considered when picking active members for inpoints.
2. 48 hours after both parties have accepted the trade and the trade has been approved, it will
pass.
Page 10 of 16
Armchair Fantasy Baseball Constitution
3. If a trade is questioned for the right reasons that 48 hour clock will extend to 72 hours.
Vetoes require an explanation. Approvals do not; it is assumed an approval means an
agreement with the reasoning posted by the organizations involved.
4. If a decision is made by the commissioner and 3 members or more (not including the
members involved in the trade) disagree with the ruling, it will be overruled.
5. If for any reason a trade sits for 72 hours and no negative comments or vetoes were made in
the post, then the trade passes.
6. Any trade that violates any part of the league constitution will be automatically vetoed.
As I read the rules, it isn't clear to me that picks may be traded for cash. Lande, as commissioner, seems to me you need to make a ruling on that. Personally, I don't like trading cash for picks, and don't think there's any other league that allows it to be done.
Reading you approval, I'm assuming you are allowing it. However, since it's now off-season, doesn't the cash come from next years' funds?
Based on that alone, :iatp:
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Yes any cash would come from next year not this year.
I don't like the trading for picks either but the rules state it can happen.
Maybe this is a chance to vote on a rule change?
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Trading cash for a pick is no different than outright purchasing a player. There is a higher risk reward factor for the team purchasing picks. It also makes a lot of sense for the rebuilding teams. Perhaps sticking to real slot values for the picks or 1.5 times slot values would be a good guideline
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It is different as it raises the cap for the other team. When money is exchanged for a player and a salary it is a different scenario. But honestly I am totally opposed to the idea.
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I'm not in favor of trading draft picks for cash.
Until the matter is still being polled and decided on i withold a further opinion on this trade
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It would be interesting to know Kenny's intent with this rule. It does NOT say cash only can be traded for players. In fact, the only direct language that addresses this is this:
Cash for future seasons may also be traded if the amount is no greater than the salaries of the players involved.
I just think allowing cash for picks will not prove to be a wise move. MLB doesn't allow it, not sure why we would.
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Sort of a weird trade.
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It would be interesting to know Kenny's intent with this rule. It does NOT say cash only can be traded for players. In fact, the only direct language that addresses this is this:
Cash for future seasons may also be traded if the amount is no greater than the salaries of the players involved.
I just think allowing cash for picks will not prove to be a wise move. MLB doesn't allow it, not sure why we would.
Can you articulate why it's not a wise move? Technically, MLB only allows the new compensatory picks to be traded but MLB doesn't have a salary cap and MLB has a motive that we don't have here which is profitability. When you limit the money, it becomes as valuable as draft picks which are also limited. If you look at a league like the NBA, a league with a cap, they do allow the sale of draft picks. All NBA teams are allowed to include as much as $3 million a year in cash to make a trade or even buy a draft pick. I realize having a cap is necessary for this league just for the sake of balance and fairness. My team has little MLB talent and not being able to use all of my cap money or having to spend it on overpriced free agents is a big disadvantage. Allowing a bad team to buy picks can speed up a rebuilding process and allowing a talented team to sell pcks allows them to keep their established talent longer. It can be a huge benefit for teams in either position. Any concerns about selling an entire draft or something can be addressed by capping the amount of money that can be traded, $5 or $10 million per team per season.
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Can you articulate why it's not a wise move? Technically, MLB only allows the new compensatory picks to be traded but MLB doesn't have a salary cap and MLB has a motive that we don't have here which is profitability. When you limit the money, it becomes as valuable as draft picks which are also limited. If you look at a league like the NBA, a league with a cap, they do allow the sale of draft picks. All NBA teams are allowed to include as much as $3 million a year in cash to make a trade or even buy a draft pick. I realize having a cap is necessary for this league just for the sake of balance and fairness. My team has little MLB talent and not being able to use all of my cap money or having to spend it on overpriced free agents is a big disadvantage. Allowing a bad team to buy picks can speed up a rebuilding process and allowing a talented team to sell pcks allows them to keep their established talent longer. It can be a huge benefit for teams in either position. Any concerns about selling an entire draft or something can be addressed by capping the amount of money that can be traded, $5 or $10 million per team per season.
Chris, you make some very good points. Perhaps a good solution would be to have a scale of $$ value for draft picks?
I'm saying it may be unwise simply because in any of our leagues, we have owners that don't value draft picks very much, or specs either for that matter. Which is fine while the owner is in place, but too many times we see owners leave leagues after gutting the team, trading away picks and specs simply because they aren't of any special value to that particular owner. Allowing an owner to sell the pick for cash only only heightens the issue. Also, if we can trade picks for $$, why not allow teams to simply buy players for cash from another owner? After all, we do simply pay cash for FA, so why not allow teams to buy players from one another as well.
My point: how do we make sure the league just doesn't become a league where the big cap teams can buy anything they want?
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Chris, you make some very good points. Perhaps a good solution would be to have a scale of $$ value for draft picks?
I'm saying it may be unwise simply because in any of our leagues, we have owners that don't value draft picks very much, or specs either for that matter. Which is fine while the owner is in place, but too many times we see owners leave leagues after gutting the team, trading away picks and specs simply because they aren't of any special value to that particular owner. Allowing an owner to sell the pick for cash only only heightens the issue. Also, if we can trade picks for $$, why not allow teams to simply buy players for cash from another owner? After all, we do simply pay cash for FA, so why not allow teams to buy players from one another as well.
My point: how do we make sure the league just doesn't become a league where the big cap teams can buy anything they want?
I understand. A couple of points.
I think theres a lot of value in differentiating these leagues. So what one league does shouldnt necessarily be a standard for all leagues. What i find attractive about this league is the control over all possible aspects of a team all the way throughout the franchise. I think that's cool. I have other ideas for things that might improve this league and I don't think we should be afraid of tinkering.
Second, I think if a team doesn't value prospects or the draft and they can compete that way then more power to them. It's a strategy to use but in the long run, just like in real MLB, it's going to be hard to be successful that way in a league this deep in detail with 25 players per roster accumulating points. Just my opinion but I think it will be born out in time here. When you have a roster with 9 players at a time getting points and $125 million to spend, you can spend free agent money and disregard your farm. When you have 25 players scoring, you can't ignore the cheap labor you gain from the farm. Even the Yankees in real MLB with unlimited money are struggling now because they've neglected the farm.
Third, I think with the salary cap and the fact the money can't roll over a team can't just outspend another team. A team that spends on MLB free agents, can't buy up all the minor league talent and a team that buys up all the minor league talent can't buy up all the MLB free agents.
I'm more worried about the opposite honestly. A team tanking, accumulating tons of minor league talent through the draft and international free agency and then shredding the league with cheap salaried phenoms being promoted every season for a long time.
Some suggestions to address your concerns.
1). Draft picks can only be sold in the upcoming draft. You cannot sell a 2017 draft pick in 2013 for example.
2). In trades or sales involving draft picks, you can include up to 4% of the cap for the current fiscal year. Cap money included for draft picks is taken from and can only be spent in the current fiscal year.
3) A team selling draft picks cannot sell more than 2 draft picks in succession for the upcoming draft. For example, selling your 2nd and 3rd is fine but selling your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th is prohibited. Selling your 2nd, 3rd, and 5th is fine.
I have no problem selling players for cash but that is much different in one major way. when you buy a player you know what you're getting. The draft is mostly a crapshoot. Buying draft picks is much riskier for the team buying than buying veteran players.
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The trading of draft picks for cash is going to be invalid.