DISCUSSION: Supplemental Draft ELC value determination

[AntMan]

Open Question carried here since the listed rules don’t appear to mention SDP EL contract value being different than Entry Draft NHL Position

Start at the bottom

PsychoticPondGoons:
Be back later in the PM
Today at 05:23:05 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
PR & I are pretty good with answering all grey area matters.
Today at 05:22:54 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
whenever in doubt, post or PM the question
Today at 05:22:35 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Let's make it a discussion thread gents
Today at 05:22:08 PM
halo99:
yeah i don't think I've ever seen that Blues guy on here
Today at 05:22:04 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Got to run. Just want to address the question
Today at 05:21:44 PM
izaman3:
PPG, I know we already given you enough work around here, I don't want life to be more difficult for you that's why we should stick to one set of ELC values
Today at 05:21:37 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
If not return by rollover, we will list the franchises for sale
Today at 05:21:00 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
PR & I will manage ANH & STL ... ANH is paid up
Today at 05:20:29 PM
halo99:
The Ducks guy was pretty active
Today at 05:20:10 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
SDP were meant to be fun, exciting and straightfwd to admin
Today at 05:20:00 PM
halo99:
What happened with the Anaheim and STL owners? Looks like they've gone MIA
Today at 05:19:51 PM
izaman3:
I think most GMs assumed all prospects, entry and supp had the same ELC values, and I think those values make sense, and it still rewards GMs for prospect research because undrafted players taken in the supp can get minimum contracts for 3 years
Today at 05:19:49 PM
blkhwkfn:
Use the easy button, it’s just easier
Today at 05:19:23 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
one ELC value is definitely straight fwd to process. no validation of draft position, ELC value range, posting accuracy, etc.
Today at 05:17:48 PM
izaman3:
It means all Entry and Supp players are subject to the same ELC values, and all players have their real life draft position listed there for you
Today at 05:16:24 PM
izaman3:
But if keep the same ELC values, your job is easier because you already list their real life NHL draft position for Supp players
Today at 05:15:16 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
the Supplemental draft prospects were to get a blanket ELC value to make my life processing them easier
Today at 05:12:52 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
I know when we created the Supplemental draft we didn't want to create another set of ELC values but also didnt feel the Enrty Draft ELC values were valid
Today at 05:11:54 PM
Jonathan:
I like the SDP, but its not really a supplement. 
Today at 05:11:50 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Combing thru the page
Today at 05:10:36 PM
Jonathan:
or at least need clarification.
Today at 05:07:47 PM
Jonathan:
yeah, seems like some of the rules in that section are outdated.
Today at 05:05:12 PM
AntMan:
Going to be a board topic I’d imagine
Today at 05:04:07 PM
AntMan:
It would be one thing if we put it in writing then occurances
Today at 05:03:16 PM
Jonathan:
in the rules
Today at 05:02:57 PM
Jonathan:
Once a player is removed from the MiLR they are ineligible to return to the MiLR.
Today at 05:02:45 PM
AntMan:
I don’t think there is liberty to adjust the rule without an open forum
Today at 05:02:43 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
more tools in the toolkit to use
Today at 05:02:11 PM
izaman3:
Also, if you draft a bust, you draft a bust. FNHL owners don't need easy bailouts for bad drafting
Today at 05:02:03 PM
AntMan:
The rules are clearly listed as NHL draft position-agree
Today at 05:01:49 PM
izaman3:
A team that drafted Griffen Reinhart can sign him as a FP, or to a 1 year deal then then extend him for the league minimum
Today at 05:01:09 PM
izaman3:
the loophole of buying out and redrafting with supp picks makes sense in the rules the way they are written, but supp drafted players are prospects and prospects get entry deals based on their real life NHL draft position, not where we drafted them
Today at 05:00:12 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
A good thing if a team drafts Griffen Reinhart at #4oa
Today at 04:59:41 PM
izaman3:
It almost make the entry level contracts less meaningful because they can all easily be changed to a league minimum
Today at 04:58:34 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
as we going thru 1 cycle of SDP maturing, we'll see the effect and if need be adjust/amend rules.
Today at 04:58:32 PM
Jonathan:
its same with Supp picks. It seems to be too easy to get FPs that way. No actually hitting on real picks.
Today at 04:58:07 PM
izaman3:
Yes, I that process and loophole is fine with me, but its not the same as entry level deals
Today at 04:57:30 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
with a benefit tied to it
Today at 04:57:23 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Rd5 pick is a reward for Div Champs
Today at 04:56:59 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Jonathan, yes - happened last yr
Today at 04:56:34 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
the teams that held a player on their active roster, then dropped/BO the prospect to draft them thru the Supplemental I know are happy with the process.
Today at 04:56:23 PM
Jonathan:
I can go in FA this year, pay whatever price for whatever prospect, and then he is a FP in round 5 draft.
Today at 04:55:34 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
how are FP watered down?
Today at 04:53:01 PM
Jonathan:
Yup, research and Franchise Players are watered down.
Today at 04:52:33 PM
izaman3:
It made my prospect research less valuable. I could have drafted Quinn Hughes at a minimum contract instead of Jimmy Schuldt
Today at 04:51:01 PM
Jonathan:
I'd like it better if only entry picks could be franchised and supp. picks wipe that out.
Today at 04:49:47 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
I like that we are increasing the value of prospects and picks overall.
Today at 04:49:15 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
So the champ gets rewards for his work
Today at 04:48:46 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
But it just made your prospect research more valuable
Today at 04:48:34 P
PsychoticPondGoons:
Izaman, that's a timing game & potentially makes top picks even more valuable.
Today at 04:48:01 PM
izaman3:
It doesn't really take any work or research for me to drop Quinn Hughes and redraft him with a Supp pick to save cap
Today at 04:46:54 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
that is a loophole that has appears now that we've almost completed our 2nd supplemental draft
Today at 04:46:26 PM
izaman3:
teams won't want to trade supp picks because most teams have a high drafted player they can just drop and draft with a supp pick
Today at 04:45:52 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
well, supplemental draftees are only of value if you do homework and find them
Today at 04:45:35 PM
izaman3:
I have no reason to sign Jack Hughes to a $3m entry contract when I can just wait for the supp draft, drop him and draft him for the league minimum, same with any other high drafted player
Today at 04:45:14 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
the rule with min. salary
Today at 04:44:42 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
discarded or overlooked prospectrs given a 2nd chance
Today at 04:44:27 PM
izaman3:
But with this rule, that's not what will happen
Today at 04:44:02 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
The supplement was meant to be the FNHL draft where gems are discovered
Today at 04:43:31 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
the PRO = high activity period after the Finals. Con = potential abuse, but we felt this would be limited as with most rules
Today at 04:42:43 PM
halo99:
I'd personally prefer that BOs not be allowed until after all the picks are in but honestly I don't care about it that much
Today at 04:42:18 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
PR & I discussed the pro's & con's
Today at 04:42:01 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
a few have asked via PM
Today at 04:41:11 PM
halo99:
Yeah that's why mine got traded to Detroit lol
Today at 04:40:26 PM
izaman3:
I have some concerns with that approach because it messes with values: that makes the supplemental draft much more valuable than the entry draft, it also makes round 2 supp picks more valuable than early round 1 picks, because early round 1 picks occur during a buyout freeze
Today at 04:39:29 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
sort of like the BO and draft thru Supplemental...
Today at 04:39:01 PM
halo99:
Interesting
Today at 04:38:48 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
it's for all you FNHL owners to enjoy as a benefit
Today at 04:38:13 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
To simply the ELC for prospects coming from the Supplemental draft, the FNHL league min. would be used across the board.
Today at 04:37:50 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
the Supplemental draft is an FNHL thing.
Today at 04:36:16 PM
halo99:
most supplemental picks wouldn't have been drafted high in the real draft so I guess that's why this has never occured to anyone
Today at 04:36:14 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Yes FNHL entry draft prospects get EL contract based on NHL draft position
Today at 04:36:02 PM
izaman3:
That makes the supplemental draft much more valuable than the entry draft, it also makes round 2 supp picks more valuable than early round 1 picks, because early round 1 picks occur during a buyout freeze
Today at 04:35:32 PM
halo99:
Aren't the entry contracts based on the real draft though and not the FNHL draft?
Today at 04:35:01 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
wipes away the old
Today at 04:33:44 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Supplemental draft washes the original
Today at 04:33:37 PM
izaman3:
Wait, any supplemental players get the league minimum gets a league minimum entry level deal? I thought all prospects receive their value based on their real life NHL draft position, not their FNHL draft postition, so wouldn't that mean Entry and Supp draft players are treated the same and given a deal based on their real life draft position?
Today at 04:28:49 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Gears are always turning with this FNHL group of owners
Today at 04:18:26 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
I saw the move. Up there with Izaman and Antman thinking. Watch out gents
Today at 04:17:47 PM
PsychoticPondGoons:
Mordecai PMed the Question. SDP prospects that mature and need an Entry Level deal get the league min. 0.6m skaters or 1.0 for goalies
Today at 04:17:21 PM
izaman3:
Yeah, everyone left is a lottery ticket; I just happen to like gambling
Today at 03:47:39 PM
AntMan:
That modacai is always looking forward
Today at 03:45:08 PM
AntMan:
Probably a good move, Brady at $6m would save him 1.5 per... verses drafting a 30% likely player with moderate ceiling
Today at 03:44:29 PM
izaman3:
I used a Franchise tag on a $2m Debrusk this year, and Montreal only had 1 player tagged last year, so who knows. I'm just guessing as it's the only thing that makes sense to me
Today at 03:28:39 PM
AntMan:
Got it, not sure I had Brad’s ceiling at Franchise tag but then again
Today at 03:23:24 PM
izaman3:
But since Montreal drafted him in the Supplemental draft, he should be eligible for an FNHL Franchise Player discount down the road
Today at 03:12:53 PM
izaman3:
No, he's still owed the full contract based on his real NHL draft spot, but he was originally drafted by Ottawa in FNHL, not Montreal
Today at 03:12:20 PM
AntMan:
He’s still due a contract on NHL draft slot.,. I think that one doesn’t work out for him... worth a gamble to see moderator reaction
Today at 02:50:18 PM
AntMan:
Not really addressed in the EL contract value... I’d think he’s still due the big salary at 82 games eligibility
Today at 02:46:25 PM
AntMan:
Are we thinking the SDP cancels the original draft position?
Today at 02:44:07 PM
DToxFan:
Just saw that. Slick move.
Today at 02:20:35 PM
izaman3:
Drafting Brady Tkachuk was so sly, why do I have to be up against such saavy GMs in the Atlantic? Mordecia is playing 4-D Chess over here

[izaman3]

I have lots of thoughts on this that I'll post a bit later but I just wanted this to get its own thread. I saw that Antman posted in the questions thread too. http://www.profsl.com/smf/index.php?topic=40123.msg1402531#new

I think the rules are pretty clear that drafted players get ELC contracts based on real-life NHL draft position, and I assumed that to mean for entry draft prospects and supplemental prospects.

This is a discussion thread for GMs to post their thoughts, but I also added the poll so a GM could just give a simple vote if they don't want to type out their reasoning.

I made the poll so only PR and PPG can sell who voted for what. I wasn't sure if that mattered to anyone. I know how I'm voting.

[blkhwkfn]

Maybe i am missing something on the EL value of a player thats in the minors. To me its pretty simple, no need to try to reinvent the wheel here. SDP specs have either NOT been drafted (passed over twice in the draft) or have been drafted by an NHL team abd not by an FNHL team. So a move releasing Brady Tkackuk and picking him up in SDP shouldnt change his value. He was still a TOP 5 pick in the NHL draft and thats his EL contract value. NOT a .6 for 3 years player. All in all it was just smoke rings.

Like i said maybe i am missing the point here but lets not piss in the wind here.

Just my 2 cents

[blkhwkfn]

Real NHL Draft positions should apply. I think we are making this harder than it should be.

[PigsRule]

Though this is a discussion... the decision is that yr 1 and current SDP prospects (those drafted in 2018 + 2019) get a standard 0.6m ELC for skaters and 1.0m for goalies. Draft position in the Supplemental or NHl entry draft are not a factor for the SDP.

If majority of owners want to alter that after this discussion sometime in the future it can be done.

[PigsRule]

Actually the question was asked by a number of owners via PM and possibly on a thread for SDP or even here... PPG + myself have clarified for those who asked that ELC for Supllemental Draftees would be simplied to
0.6m Skaters
1.0m Goalies

The reason was because most are overagers, college prospects never drafted, late bloomers, so the use of FNHL league minimums was sufficient.

Of course, some creatuve owners have found resourceful ways to use SDP's with other FNHL tools... and PPG and I are fine with that for now. Have the discussion in the duscussion thread.

Not sure why this is happening in 2 places.

[PigsRule]

FYI

Izaman + Antman threads merged... same discussion.

[PigsRule]

Real NHL Draft positions should apply. I think we are making this harder than it should be.

PPG and I decided 2 yrs ago the SDP ELC would be the league minimum to standardize the process of graduating SDP draftees. There's a ton of work and I not going to make PPG take on more detail work verifying rank, yr, draft position, ELC salary ranges, spelling of name etc. The supplemental is meant to be fun not a new pile of admin.

[Rock On]

I sense there are owners who do not like the use of minimum wage for supplemental draft prospects but don't understand why. It benefits all of us equally does it not? No one has any special advantage, correct? What am I missing? We all drafted players we wanted which is the goal of the draft IMO.

[blkhwkfn]

PPG and I decided 2 yrs ago the SDP ELC would be the league minimum to standardize the process of graduating SDP draftees. There's a ton of work and I not going to make PPG take on more detail work verifying rank, yr, draft position, ELC salary ranges, spelling of name etc. The supplemental is meant to be fun not a new pile of admin.