ProFSL: Pro Fantasy Sports Leagues
Fantasy Leagues => Dynasty NHL => NHL Leagues => Dynasty NHL: Archive => Topic started by: SlackJack on December 14, 2017, 11:15:43 PM
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Has there been a conversation about doing away with the +/- stat? It is a poor metric for today's game!
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We haven't discussed it. I disagree that it's obsolete though.
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I think with the onslaught of advanced metrics +/- and pitcher wins have really gotten crapped on. If you are on the ice for a goal against that is a bad thing and most likely had a hand in giving up the goal, not always, but certainly most of the time. The opposite is true as well. If you are a high possession player that has a garbage +/- that might mean your unlucky, but it more probably means your team and you suck at defending.
Having said that if we could swap +/- for a game score rating that would be rad.
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If we're going to discuss this, here's a little data. I also setup a dummy league removing this stat so if there's any player you want to compare let me know. Or I can invite you to the dummy league. Corey - I don't see GSR in the Fantrax scoring options. Snuggy - is there something equivalent that I'm missing?
Top 100 players (current settings)
Player FPts FP/G
Ovechkin, Alex 171.3 5.19
Kucherov, Nikita 169.4 5.46
Schenn, Brayden 163.3 4.95
Tarasenko, Vladimir 152.1 4.61
Stamkos, Steven 148.5 4.79
Kopitar, Anze 144.5 4.52
Schwartz, Jaden 142.2 4.74
Tavares, John 137.75 4.3
Kessel, Phil 133.6 4.05
Brown, Dustin 133.55 4.17
Gaudreau, Johnny 132.45 4.14
Couturier, Sean 132.4 4.27
McDavid, Connor 132 4.12
Lee, Anders 130.1 4.07
Scheifele, Mark 129.4 4.04
Forsberg, Filip 127.25 4.1
Benn, Jamie 125.45 3.92
Wheeler, Blake 124.55 3.89
Voracek, Jakub 123.7 3.99
Trocheck, Vincent 123.35 3.85
Kane, Evander 122.85 3.84
Monahan, Sean 122.35 3.82
Point, Brayden 121.15 3.91
MacKinnon, Nathan 120.5 3.89
Seguin, Tyler 120.1 3.75
Giroux, Claude 119.2 3.85
Toffoli, Tyler 115.25 3.6
Crosby, Sidney 114.3 3.46
Kane, Patrick 114.1 3.57
Namestnikov, Vladislav 114.1 3.68
Hall, Taylor 113.55 3.78
Stone, Mark 113.55 3.78
Staal, Eric 113.5 3.66
Kuznetsov, Evgeny 112.65 3.41
Matthews, Auston 112.05 4.31
Pastrnak, David 111.25 3.84
Boeser, Brock 110.75 3.82
Bailey, Josh 109.6 3.42
Zucker, Jason 109.6 3.54
Barkov, Aleksander 108.5 3.5
Kadri, Nazem 108.35 3.28
Anderson, Josh 108.2 3.61
Karlsson, William 107.8 3.48
Marchessault, Jonathan 106.95 3.82
Laine, Patrik 106.55 3.33
Huberdeau, Jonathan 106.4 3.33
Couture, Logan 105.9 3.53
Neal, James 105.6 3.41
Doughty, Drew 105.2 3.29
Ehlers, Nikolaj 102.3 3.2
Grabner, Michael 99.9 3.22
Arvidsson, Viktor 99.85 3.22
Pietrangelo, Alex 99.75 3.33
Panarin, Artemi 99.3 3.1
Marchand, Brad 97.7 4.65
Hornqvist, Patric 96.3 3.21
Lucic, Milan 96.1 3
Malkin, Evgeni 95.35 3.29
Barzal, Mathew 94.75 2.96
van Riemsdyk, James 94.35 2.95
Oshie, T.J. 93.9 3.35
Gallagher, Brendan 93.85 2.93
DeBrincat, Alex 93.5 2.92
Josi, Roman 91.9 3.28
Palat, Ondrej 91.85 2.96
Buchnevich, Pavel 91.65 2.96
Landeskog, Gabriel 91.6 3.39
Toews, Jonathan 91.35 2.85
Smith, Reilly 90.9 2.93
Eberle, Jordan 90.35 2.82
Bergeron, Patrice 90.05 3.75
Smith, Craig 90.05 2.9
Faksa, Radek 90 2.9
Radulov, Alexander 89.9 2.81
Guentzel, Jake 89.35 2.71
Sergachev, Mikhail 89.15 2.88
Werenski, Zach 89.15 2.79
Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan 88.4 2.76
Perron, David 88.35 3.53
Kreider, Chris 87.8 2.83
Gibbons, Brian 87.75 2.83
Skinner, Jeff 87.55 2.92
Pearson, Tanner 87.45 2.73
Muzzin, Jake 86.9 2.72
Pacioretty, Max 86.55 2.7
Zuccarello, Mats 86.55 2.79
Marleau, Patrick 86.45 2.62
Klingberg, John 86.25 2.7
Ferland, Micheal 86.1 2.78
Backstrom, Nicklas 85.85 2.68
Gourde, Yanni 85.85 2.77
Nylander, William 85.1 2.58
Saad, Brandon 85 2.66
Subban, P.K. 84.95 2.74
Horvat, Bo 84.8 3.03
Bjorkstrand, Oliver 84.6 2.64
Haula, Erik 84.55 3.13
Mantha, Anthony 84.55 2.73
Staal, Jordan 84.3 2.81
Top 100 players (removing +/-)
Player FPts FP/G
Ovechkin, Alex 165.3 5.01
Kucherov, Nikita 160.4 5.17
Schenn, Brayden 140.3 4.25
Stamkos, Steven 136.5 4.4
Tarasenko, Vladimir 136.1 4.12
Tavares, John 135.75 4.24
Kessel, Phil 134.6 4.08
Kane, Evander 130.85 4.09
Kopitar, Anze 130.5 4.08
Lee, Anders 130.1 4.07
Gaudreau, Johnny 128.45 4.01
Trocheck, Vincent 128.35 4.01
McDavid, Connor 127 3.97
Benn, Jamie 123.45 3.86
MacKinnon, Nathan 122.5 3.95
Scheifele, Mark 121.4 3.79
Seguin, Tyler 121.1 3.78
Wheeler, Blake 120.55 3.77
Crosby, Sidney 120.3 3.65
Forsberg, Filip 120.25 3.88
Couturier, Sean 119.4 3.85
Schwartz, Jaden 119.2 3.97
Brown, Dustin 118.55 3.7
Monahan, Sean 118.35 3.7
Voracek, Jakub 117.7 3.8
Hall, Taylor 117.55 3.92
Kane, Patrick 115.1 3.6
Pastrnak, David 113.25 3.91
Kuznetsov, Evgeny 112.65 3.41
Boeser, Brock 110.75 3.82
Giroux, Claude 110.2 3.55
Laine, Patrik 107.55 3.36
Stone, Mark 107.55 3.58
Bailey, Josh 106.6 3.33
Barkov, Aleksander 106.5 3.44
Huberdeau, Jonathan 106.4 3.33
Point, Brayden 106.15 3.42
Namestnikov, Vladislav 106.1 3.42
Staal, Eric 105.5 3.4
Ehlers, Nikolaj 104.3 3.26
Toffoli, Tyler 104.25 3.26
Neal, James 103.6 3.34
Zucker, Jason 102.6 3.31
Kadri, Nazem 102.35 3.1
Marchessault, Jonathan 101.95 3.64
Couture, Logan 100.9 3.36
Karlsson, William 100.8 3.25
Hornqvist, Patric 99.3 3.31
Anderson, Josh 99.2 3.31
Matthews, Auston 99.05 3.81
van Riemsdyk, James 98.35 3.07
Guentzel, Jake 97.35 2.95
Malkin, Evgeni 97.35 3.36
Gallagher, Brendan 95.85 3
Skinner, Jeff 95.55 3.19
Keller, Clayton 95.35 2.8
Pacioretty, Max 94.55 2.95
Mantha, Anthony 93.55 3.02
Panarin, Artemi 93.3 2.92
Oshie, T.J. 92.9 3.32
Radulov, Alexander 92.9 2.9
Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan 92.4 2.89
Lucic, Milan 92.1 2.88
Eichel, Jack 91.9 2.87
Arvidsson, Viktor 91.85 2.96
Doughty, Drew 91.2 2.85
Buchnevich, Pavel 90.65 2.92
Barzal, Mathew 89.75 2.8
DeBrincat, Alex 89.5 2.8
Hoffman, Mike 89.3 2.98
Smith, Craig 89.05 2.87
Rantanen, Mikko 88.9 2.87
Kreider, Chris 88.8 2.86
Ekman-Larsson, Oliver 88.5 2.6
Eberle, Jordan 88.35 2.76
Ferland, Micheal 88.1 2.84
Leddy, Nick 88.05 2.75
Grabner, Michael 87.9 2.84
Josi, Roman 87.9 3.14
Marchand, Brad 87.7 4.18
Marleau, Patrick 87.45 2.65
Letang, Kris 86.6 2.62
Toews, Jonathan 86.35 2.7
Zibanejad, Mika 86.3 3.6
Simmonds, Wayne 86 2.77
Pietrangelo, Alex 85.75 2.86
Landeskog, Gabriel 85.6 3.17
Maroon, Patrick 85.1 2.66
Smith, Reilly 84.9 2.74
Haula, Erik 84.55 3.13
Staal, Jordan 84.3 2.81
Burns, Brent 84.1 2.8
O'Reilly, Ryan 83.8 2.62
Rakell, Rickard 83.75 3.1
Zuccarello, Mats 83.55 2.7
Larkin, Dylan 83.4 2.69
Perron, David 83.35 3.33
Stastny, Paul 83.2 2.52
Werenski, Zach 83.15 2.6
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The most drastic differences are obviously with the best and worst +/- guys. Those STL forwards with incredible numbers this year take a pretty big FP dip (20-30 points this year). Meanwhile a guy like OEL who is notoriously bad in +/- would see a decent bump in production.
Though based on what I'm seeing, I think Slack is right (at least from a fantasy perspective, I still appreciate +/- in real life even though others don't). However, it's really not a huge factor in our scoring.
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The most drastic differences are obviously with the best and worst +/- guys. Those STL forwards with incredible numbers this year take a pretty big FP dip (20-30 points this year). Meanwhile a guy like OEL who is notoriously bad in +/- would see a decent bump in production.
Though based on what I'm seeing, I think Slack is right (at least from a fantasy perspective, I still appreciate +/- in real life even though others don't). However, it's really not a huge factor in our scoring.
I personally see no point in changing it as we are a points based league and as Rob pointed out it does little to change the overall stats. If you were to replace it my best suggestion is Blocked Shots. Under the premium scoring features there is a Corsi% however I dont know if we want to start paying $85 a year just to score corsi and not even sure how you would score corsi ... It seems more a head to head category league thing.
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I personally see no point in changing it as we are a points based league and as Rob pointed out it does little to change the overall stats. If you were to replace it my best suggestion is Blocked Shots. Under the premium scoring features there is a Corsi% however I dont know if we want to start paying $85 a year just to score corsi and not even sure how you would score corsi ... It seems more a head to head category league thing.
We've discussed Blocked Shots in the past. I've never been a fan of that stat even though it would help with Defensive scoring. However, I believe I recall in prior conversations that this change would do too much to disrupt the overall scoring, and the value of certain players. I never liked the idea. And if we did it we'd need a long preparation period - like 2 seasons, so that GM's could prepare for that kind of change.
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I personally see no point in changing it as we are a points based league and as Rob pointed out it does little to change the overall stats. If you were to replace it my best suggestion is Blocked Shots. Under the premium scoring features there is a Corsi% however I dont know if we want to start paying $85 a year just to score corsi and not even sure how you would score corsi ... It seems more a head to head category league thing.
I'm not opposed to paying for the league - never have been. There's just been no reason to do it so far other than the Minor League stats which we enable in the offseason anyway. I kinda wish I bought that lifetime membership they offered a couple years ago.
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I'm not opposed to paying for the league - never have been. There's just been no reason to do it so far other than the Minor League stats which we enable in the offseason anyway. I kinda wish I bought that lifetime membership they offered a couple years ago.
You and me both... Really wished i had bought it....
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As a former player, and now fan, +/- is still important and I don't think it should be taken out. It's always been a part of any league I'm in, H2H or points.
In our pts league here, I was surprised to see not a ton difference in the rankings. I know for my team on quick glance, EK's +/- is horrible this year and his fp/g take a hit because of it, same with Kris Letang. For the majority of players though, I don't see it as a big deal. There aren't going to be half your team of + or - 35 players at the end of the season unless you're really lucky/unlucky. An you generally know what a guy's +/- will be. OEL has always been poor, and heading into this year you could have predicted that for COL and ARI players probably at least.
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If +/- doesn't make a difference either way then I suppose it doesn't matter whether it's part of the scoring or not. Which on it's own sounds like an indictment against the stat. Advanced stats are a whole different world but I do like the fact that the are more directly reflective of a players performance. (Whereas +/- is more of a team derivative.)
With +/- at one end of the spectrum and advanced stats at the other, I think blocked shots fall right in the middle as an important (and easily understandable) part of today's game. Discard +/-, or keep it, but definitely consider phasing blocked shots in!