RC Discussion on Adding a 5 Player MiLB (RC Members Only Please)

[joeshmoe]

Am i the only one who sees that giant loophole?

[Flash]

If it is free to place a player on the minors and can remain their indeinitely they shpuld not be allowed to be used for scoring. That would cause huge issues.

The only players who can be used for scoring purposes are players on your 40 man roster.  The 5 MiLB players, like the EDRs we currently have on our Fantrax rosters, will be inactive for fantasy scoring purposes.  There is no loophole.. 

I don't want to engage in a "Posting War" over things that simply don't exist.  How we utilize the five MiLB roster spots is clearly explained and I'm not sure how much more I can say to ease your fears.

 I will reiterate, there are specific guidelines that must be followed in order to use the 5 MiLB roster spots.  Our Fantrax minor league rosters will be expanded to 25, 20 spots for our EDRs and 5 spots for our MiLBs--assuming we all have 20 EDRs and 5 MiLBs.  Just like they do now, if GMs activate MiLBs or EDRs, they will have to drop a player from their 40 man MLB roster (if they have 40) to make room for the newly activated player and that salary will be added to their cap.  GMs cannot simply move players up and down at their leisure without posting something on the Transaction Board.

[joeshmoe]

The only players who can be used for scoring purposes are players on your 40 man roster.  The 5 MiLB players, like the EDRs we currently have on our Fantrax rosters, will be inactive for fantasy scoring purposes.  There is no loophole.. 

I don't want to engage in a "Posting War" over things that simply don't exist.  How we utilize the five MiLB roster spots is clearly explained and I'm not sure how much more I can say to ease your fears.

 I will reiterate, there are specific guidelines that must be followed in order to use the 5 MiLB roster spots.  Our Fantrax minor league rosters will be expanded to 25, 20 spots for our EDRs and 5 spots for our MiLBs--assuming we all have 20 EDRs and 5 MiLBs.  Just like they do now, if GMs activate MiLBs or EDRs, they will have to drop a player from their 40 man MLB roster (if they have 40) to make room for the newly activated player and that salary will be added to their cap.  GMs cannot simply move players up and down at their leisure without posting something on the Transaction Board.

Fantrax does allow me to use any player for scoring. There is no way to distinguish between the two is there? I remember this issue from fNHL. So in FNHL prospect rosters were left as free agents and that was super sloppy. I could put a player like Javier Baez on my minor league roster indefinitely, for no cost, and plug him into my starting lineup every day. That's the loophole that doesn't exist existing. Your incorrect Ernie.

And since this can be done, this rule would demand huge resources to monitor everyday that teams aren't starting a player in the minor league roster. The operations would be enormous.

[BHows]

Why would you put him on your MLB roster if he's at AAA and not able to score points? If he makes the MLB roster in real life you, by existing rule, have to take him off your EDR anyway.
Maybe I'm missing something?

[Brent]

I'm not on the RC, but I feel the need to weigh in.  The EDR is a relic and I understand there are some original GMs in this league who want it to remain the same as it was when it was the flagship and first league on ProFSL.   However, apparently some of these GMs don't play in other leagues that use a MiLB roster with no issues at all.  This might be the flagship original league, but it has been sinking faster than the Titanic due to new leagues utilizing revitalized rules/systems that are new and fresh and make sense.  As with anything else, if you aren't changing to keep up, then you are falling behind and that is where FGM is and has been for at least over a year or so. 

[Flash]

Fantrax does allow me to use any player for scoring. There is no way to distinguish between the two is there? I remember this issue from fNHL. So in FNHL prospect rosters were left as free agents and that was super sloppy. I could put a player like Javier Baez on my minor league roster indefinitely, for no cost, and plug him into my starting lineup every day. That's the loophole that doesn't exist existing. Your incorrect Ernie.

And since this can be done, this rule would demand huge resources to monitor everyday that teams aren't starting a player in the minor league roster. The operations would be enormous.

I guess the loophole you are alluding to is actually outright cheating by an individual GM.  If that's the basis of you're objection then I think you're getting yourself all worked up over nothing.  Am I wrong to assume we have honorable GMs who will not resort to cheating to win?  Do you actually think anyone believes there is any merits to your argument that we will have to monitor GMs because we can't trust them?

Technically, yes, I'm wrong, because even with our present EDR rules we can cheat and use a player illegally.  But if you really believe we have to worry about cheating, then I think you're doing yourself, and the league, a great injustice.  There is really no reason to reduce this discussion to such a distasteful level.

Please remember we are all members of this league for personal enjoyment.  As a leader of this league, I have the utmost confidence that we can implement this rule without incident.  As a member of this league, I look at this rule change as a first step towards making FGM better for all.

[papps]

I have to agree with Ernie on this.  I don't think a GM in this league would blatantly cheat like that.  Nobody wants to get the stain of being a cheater.  For what, a few extra points in a week?  I think we will be ok.

I would, however, like to put out there that if we have a 5 man MiLB roster then why don't we bring the MLB roster to 35 and have the 5 man MilB roster along with the EDR?  This way it saves the 150 players from coming out of the pool and We have more than enough bench spots with a 35 man roster.  Just a thought.

[BHows]

The rule as proposed by Ernie currently has the votes to pass. Out of courtesy, we are allowing time for all of the RC members to weigh in. Chris has suggested time constraints for future rulings. Unfortunately this came after the the Expanded EDR. Feel free to continue discussion.
I am involved in 5 baseball teams here. Each has it's own set of rules, each a little bit different. That is what I like about this site. As far as I know FGM's ENTRY DRAFT ROSTER is unique to the ProFSL community. It sets it apart from every other league. For that reason alone I am against doing away with the EDR.  It has also been a hot topic a number of times and change has been resisted. Personally I would love to see a MiLB set up separate from the EDR and incorporate an "Options" system to more closely emulate Major League Baseball but record keeping restraints make that unlikely anytime soon.
First and foremost, FGM's mission has been to be as close to operating a MLB franchise as possible. Admittedly, this league isn't for everyone. Witness the high turnover in the past few months. I don't think it's because of any of the rules. To quote the recently resigned Astro GM-. "I have no problem taking over a lesser team, but the way this league has progressed, I find it would take multiple seasons of futility to have a remote chance at respectability." Yeah, chance are you won't come in here and win immediately. Just as in the MLB you must have a lot of patients, a high baseball IQ and good business mind, in that order. And, just as in MLB it takes years to bring a team to respectability but we have avenues (FYPD and FA) to help accommodate that.

[shooter47]

The rule as proposed by Ernie currently has the votes to pass. Out of courtesy, we are allowing time for all of the RC members to weigh in. Chris has suggested time constraints for future rulings. Unfortunately this came after the the Expanded EDR. Feel free to continue discussion.
I am involved in 5 baseball teams here. Each has it's own set of rules, each a little bit different. That is what I like about this site. As far as I know FGM's ENTRY DRAFT ROSTER is unique to the ProFSL community. It sets it apart from every other league. For that reason alone I am against doing away with the EDR.  It has also been a hot topic a number of times and change has been resisted. Personally I would love to see a MiLB set up separate from the EDR and incorporate an "Options" system to more closely emulate Major League Baseball but record keeping restraints make that unlikely anytime soon.
First and foremost, FGM's mission has been to be as close to operating a MLB franchise as possible. Admittedly, this league isn't for everyone. Witness the high turnover in the past few months. I don't think it's because of any of the rules. To quote the recently resigned Astro GM-. "I have no problem taking over a lesser team, but the way this league has progressed, I find it would take multiple seasons of futility to have a remote chance at respectability." Yeah, chance are you won't come in here and win immediately. Just as in the MLB you must have a lot of patients, a high baseball IQ and good business mind, in that order. And, just as in MLB it takes years to bring a team to respectability but we have avenues (FYPD and FA) to help accommodate that.

One reason I believe we have trouble retaining GMs is due to the current EDR format and how it is different from other minor league systems used on the site. This difference is a unique feature to FGM but GMs come in expecting the system to work similar to other leagues they have joined on the site and it isn't. The current format has worked for this league for many years, however the main reasons for wanting to keep it are usually that it is different and it has been used for a long time. IMO these are not good reasons to support wanting to keep it. Being different is usually good but only if it is different in a good way. It seems that the current EDR is different in a bad way. It hinders the ability for GMs to shape and mold there team to the vision they have by placing strict rules on player transactions. I know that they main reason behind the EDR has always been to make sure each team continues to build through the farm /draft (see quote from Colby Below). In the MLB teams use their farms in many different ways. Teams like the Tigers trade prospects off for MLB help every year. Other teams like the Rays trade MLB players for Prospects because they have to do this to continue to field a good team. The current EDR seems overly restrictive and IMO the league would be better off going to a full minor league roster. I would be interested to see a poll taken of all GM's in the league on three options: 1) Keep the current EDR, 2) Current EDR plus 5 Minor league spots, 3) Switch to a Minor league system (Similar to Moneyball, New Era, Scouting Department, etc.)

1) Yes - I only vote Yes, contingent on the third ruling not being passed
2) Yes - but only if the international free agent is not a free agent in real life when signed in FGM and is on an MLB team
3) No - The intent of the EDR rule is to promote self-farming and franchise-building, so that people can build talent through the draft over a number of years the natural way without trading left and right

I voted for the addition of 5 Minor league spots because I am in favor of having a minor league similar to other leagues here on PROFSL (Moneyball, Scouting Department, New Era, etc). In the future I would hope that we look at changing to a full minor league roster and get rid of the EDR. I think it would make retaining GMs easier and make the league more fun.

Some questions I have regarding the 5 minor league spots are:
1. How will these roster positions be tracked?
2. Players placed on the minor league roster in Fantrax?
3. Will these players be added to the EDR roster on the PROFSL page?
4. Will they be clearly be identified?
5. What problems will this cause tracking Minor league players vs. EDR players?
6. Who can be placed on the minor league roster? Only players that have never played in an MLB Game? Players I have signed? Players I have traded for?
7. Does a player need to be removed once he plays in an MLB Game?
8. Would it be easier to implement, track and improve the league more by removing the EDR and going straight to a minor league roster (with eligibility requirements) where players can be called up/sent down?

I have to agree with Ernie on this.  I don't think a GM in this league would blatantly cheat like that.  Nobody wants to get the stain of being a cheater.  For what, a few extra points in a week?  I think we will be ok.

I would, however, like to put out there that if we have a 5 man MiLB roster then why don't we bring the MLB roster to 35 and have the 5 man MilB roster along with the EDR?  This way it saves the 150 players from coming out of the pool and We have more than enough bench spots with a 35 man roster.  Just a thought.

I agree that no GM in this league would cheat. The consequences of getting caught would not be worth it.

I don't see how a 35 man roster with a 5 man Minor league roster would improve the league in anyway. You are taking 5 MLB roster spots away from every team in the league and making them use them on prospects. This would reduce parity in the league IMO as bad teams in the league could use these roster spots to sign MLB players that may get them a few points. The better teams would lose a little bit of MLB depth but wouldn't hurt them that bad since they usually have solid players across the board. They would be forced to sign more prospect instead of MLB depth.

[joeshmoe]

The current wording in the first post of this thread does not designate players in the minors ineligible to gain points. The edr solves this by mandating 1 at bat or 1 pitch and you need a promotion.

Why not merely adjust the rule to include a provision about scoring, rather than discuss cheating. Cheating happens, and quite frankly if we implement this without a scoring provision after discussing it, then it wouldnt be cheating at all. The rules, knowingly, would be established to allow this.

1 description solves this issue.