Proposal to change extension method

[Rob]

Alright - here's some comparisons of current extensions vs the new rules as applied to the extending players of 9 teams in our league:

St Louis Blues:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
23	259.75	50	201.4	$4.4	$4.5	C Mathew Barzal, $0.5m (P-19/20)
132	91.9	118	111.1	$1.6	$2.0	C Tyson Jost, $0.5m (P-19/20)
35	157.8	58	130.4	$2.5	$2.8	D Brandon Montour, $0.5m (P-19/20)
111	89.1	15	186.8	$3.1	$3.3	D Thomas Chabot, $0.5m (P-19/20)
40	149.25	41	155	$2.0	$2.7	G Juuse Saros, $0.5m (P-19/20)
28	230.65	86	147.4	$5.0	$5.8	LW Jaden Schwartz, $3.5m (2019-2020)
26	234.9	23	250.2	$3.9	$4.4	LW Kyle Connor, $0.5m (P-19/20)
109	132.15	85	148.05	$0.9	$3.7	LW/RW Leo Komarov, $0.9m (2019-2020)
11	277.75	36	210.25	$6.3	$6.9	RW Jakub Voracek, $5.3m (2019-2020)
				$29.7	$36.1

For the Blues, the difference is really just Komarov - who will go to FA.  This is a desired effect.  Komarov belongs in the FA pool.




Colorado Avalanche:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
76	164.25	129	116.85	$0.9	$4.1	RW Alex Steen, FLEXED, $4.7m (2019-2020), $2.4m this year
113	110.3	54	195.4	$5.0	$4.9	C Cody Eakin, $0.9m (2019-2020)
117	104.3	95	140.7	$3.1	$3.5	C Scott Laughton, $0.9m (2019-2020)
96	133.8	70	162.7	$4.1	$4.1	C Colton Sissons, $1.4m (2019-2020)
82	149.2	106	125.9	$3.8	$3.7	C Chris Tierney, $0.9m (2019-2020)
114	124.35	118	123.7	$0.8	$3.1	RW Sam Bennett, $1m (2019-2020)
156	64.75	94	104.8	$2.5	$2.6	D Troy Stecher, $0.9m (2019-2020)
151	68.45	125	81.55	$1.7	$2.0	D Jordan Oesterle, $0.5m (2019-2020)
23	242	22	226.25	$4.3	$6.0	G Craig Anderson, $6.1m (2019-2020)
8	325	8	303.5	$6.0	$8.1	G Devan Dubnyk, $5.9m (2019-2020)
15	272.75	11	299.75	$5.8	$7.5	G Braden Holtby, $4.9m (2019-2020)
46	120	60	69	$1.5	$3.0	G Alex Stalock, $4m (2019-2020)
49	111.5	39	161.25	$2.5	$4.0	G Anders Nilsson, $1.9m (2019-2020)
21	250	58	188.45	$5.5	$6.3	LW James van Riemsdyk, $5.3m (2019-2020)
8	305.95	38	209.1	$7.3	$7.6	RW Dustin Brown, $2m (2019-2020)
				$54.8	$70.5

Colorado has a ton of extensions.  There's goalie increases across the board.  Goalies have always been undervalued for their production in our league.  That's a thing of the past.  Other than the goalies it's the wingers causing the increases.  Steen, Bennett, JVR, Dustin Brown and perhaps a producing goalie or two may fall to FA. 




Pittsburgh Penguins:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
14	204.85	7	213.35	$5.0	$5.3	D Dougie Hamilton, $2.5m (2019-2020)
39	152.85	13	191.55	$4.5	$3.5	D Ryan Pulock, $0.5m (P-19/20)
5	312.15	22	252.95	$8.0	$7.8	RW Phil Kessel, $5.6m (2019-2020)
31	223.35	9	301.5	$6.7	$7.5	RW Cam Atkinson, $2m (2019-2020)
124	112.35	221	35.15	$0.8	$2.0	RW Jesse Puljujarvi, $0.5m (P-19/20)
				$25.0	$26.9

Not many extensions and not much of a change overall.  Puljujarvi gets paid more accurately, while the Pens save nearly as much on Pulock's deal.




Philadelphia Flyers:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
103	127.75	107	124.05	$2.0	$2.2	C Nolan Patrick, $0.5m (P-19/20)
231	22.9	84	111.4	$2.7	$2.8	D Marcus Pettersson, $0.9m (2019-2020)
86	107.55	66	126.7	$2.1	$2.2	D Robert Hagg, $0.2m (P-19/20)
197	40.75	69	123.3	$2.0	$2.2	D Travis Sanheim, $0.5m (P-19/20)
133	102.15	68	168.65	$1.1	$4.2	RW Michael Frolik, $2.5m (2019-2020)
14	268.3	14	285.85	$6.0	$7.1	RW Alexander Radulov, $3.5m (2019-2020)
98	138.65	83	148.75	$0.9	$3.7	RW Joonas Donskoi, $0.9m (2019-2020)
				$16.8	$24.4

Increases all on the wingers, as intended.  Donskoi and Frolik should hit FA.




Chicago Blackhawks:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
51	199.05	17	299.25	$6.9	$7.5	C Jonathan Toews, $7m (2019-2020)
46	210	71	162.6	$5.3	$5.3	C Adam Henrique, $1.3m (2019-2020)
126	100.55	93	141.5	$3.1	$3.5	C Luke Glendening, $0.9m (2019-2020)
44	142.7	41	147.95	$3.5	$3.7	D Tyler Myers, $2.9m (2019-2020)
4	239.3	56	135	$5.2	$6.0	D PK Subban, $5.2m (2019-2020)
174	56.2	201	35.75	$0.8	$1.4	D Gustav Forsling, $0.5m (P-19/20)
47	141.65	26	170	$3.7	$4.3	D Ryan Ellis, $2m (2019-2020)
30	192.75	42	154.5	$3.3	$4.8	G Cam Ward, $1m (2019-2020)
34	165.5	25	218.75	$3.8	$5.5	G Carter Hutton, $2.8m (2019-2020)
181	73.25	113	123.95	$0.9	$3.1	LW Matt Martin, $0.9m (2019-2020)
118	126.45	153	96.35	$0.9	$3.2	LW Austin Watson, $0.9m (2019-2020)
129	96	73	159.85	$4.0	$4.0	C Vinnie Hinostroza, $0.9m (2019-2020)
120	115.9	85	148.6	$0.9	$3.7	RW Jake Virtanen, $0.8m (2019-2020)
36	220.65	11	296.25	$4.4	$5.2	RW Alexander Debrincat, $0.5m (P-19/20)
				$46.7	$61.2

Again, goalies and wingers absorbing most of the increase here.  Half a dozen players to FA from this roster.




Edmonton Oilers:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
n/a	0	231	29.65	$0.8	$0.8	RW Robby Fabbri, $0.9m (2019-2020)
34	228.15	78	153.3	$5.9	$5.7	C/RW Jordan Eberle, $4.3m (2019-2020)
144	70.45	122	82.6	$1.7	$2.1	D Danny Dekeyser, $2m (2019-2020)
57	73.25	44	146.25	$1.9	$3.7	G Louis Domingue, $3.3m (2019-2020)
130	109.75	51	194.6	$2.6	$4.9	RW/LW Brett Connolly, $1m (2019-2020)
118	118.8	76	155.4	$0.9	$3.9	RW Chris Wagner, $0.5m (2019-2020)
				$13.8	$21.1

Connolly and Wagner to FA - possibly Domingue.




Buffalo Sabres:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
153	67.05	100	99.65	$2.2	$2.5	D Jack Johnson, $0.9m (2019-2020)
51	137.45	38	149.35	$3.6	$3.7	D Alexander Edler, $2.4m (2019-2020)
76	161	128	116.3	$1.0	$4.0	LW Blake Comeau, $1m (2019-2020)
68	171.75	60	190.6	$4.8	$4.8	C Nick Foligno, $7m (2019-2020)
137	85	108	122.65	$2.0	$2.1	C JT Compher, $0.5m (P-19/20)
72	167.05	18	278	$5.8	$7.0	RW Josh Anderson, $0.9m (2019-2020)
				$19.4	$24.1

Comeau to FA - Anderson gets a more appropriate contract.




Washington Capitals:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
19	255.25	45	195.65	$3.9	$4.5	LW Yanni Gourde, $0.5m (P-19/20)
201	36.65	235	19.7	$0.8	$0.9	D Chris Wideman, $2.6m (2019-2020)
93	101.75	146	69	$2.6	$2.5	D Jonas Brodin, $1.5m (2019-2020)
138	72.15	60	128.75	$3.1	$3.2	D Michal Kempny, $0.9m (2019-2020)
96	140.45	230	36.15	$0.9	$2.5	LW Charles Hudon, $0.5m (P-19/20)
210	39.55	186	62.85	$0.8	$1.6	RW Ty Rattie, $0.5m (P-19/20)
				$12.1	$15.2

Same thing - 2 young wingers who could both land in FA.




New York Rangers:

17/18 Rank	17/18 FP	18/19 Rank	18/19 FP	Old Ext Value	New Ext Value	Player
133	90.2	48	207.65	$5.3	$5.2	C Andrew Shaw, $3.1m (2019-2020)
123	101.8	102	131.3	$2.8	$3.3	C Jeff Carter, $1.1m (2019-2020)
60	185.1	59	191.8	$4.8	$4.8	C Boone Jenner, $6m (2019-2020)
n/a		132	93.15	$0.9	$2.3	LW Zachary Sanford, $0.5m (2019-2020)
162	81.4	69	167.8	$1.1	$4.2	RW Alex Chiasson, $0.5m (2019-2020)
				$14.9	$19.8

Chiasson and Sanford to FA.


So the moral of the story is that Wingers and Goalies cost more and we are definitely fattening our FA pool.  The increase numbers may look daunting, but it's really not that much of a change since you're going to do with middle of the road wingers the same thing you've been doing with middle of the road centers - send them to FA and take your chances on gaining back similar talent at less money than you could have extended for.  In that sense the increase in pricing for some teams doesn't make them any worse than the pack - they just have to acquire cheap depth players in a different way now.  Extending them won't work. 

In this way I don't think making an exception to allow extensions under the old rules WITHOUT the matching salary rule is necessary.  It is an adjustment - no doubt.  But I don't believe it puts anyone at a disadvantage.   

[jmtrops]

is this going to happen or are we voting or something else?

[SlackJack]

is this going to happen or are we voting or something else?

This is going to happen.

[Rob]

I'll put it to a vote in a week or so once people have had time to digest it and poke holes in it.  In case there's some tinkering that needs to be done before we carve it in stone.

Personally I'm 100% for the change if that's not obvious.  But I'm still 1 person out of 20 here.  I'll use my pedestal to make my case, but in the end the league will decide. 

[norrya66]

I love the original idea from Rob. 1pt. = $25k (or whatever exact amount we come up with)

I do however have MAJOR concerns about Slacks suggestions. I hate the idea of doing an average or 2 of the best three. I love our system of best of the last two years.

The only concern I have with the system is the timeline. As someone stated before, implementing this next year may be too early. May need to extend it to two years.

[Rob]

I love the original idea from Rob. 1pt. = $25k (or whatever exact amount we come up with)

I do however have MAJOR concerns about Slacks suggestions. I hate the idea of doing an average or 2 of the best three. I love our system of best of the last two years.

The only concern I have with the system is the timeline. As someone stated before, implementing this next year may be too early. May need to extend it to two years.

Jared played for the title every year and was one of the best around at finding value out of nowhere.  But you're seeing a bit of the fallout over there with all those extensions and none of them discountable.  Even without the rule change, your Avs have $26.5m in cap space next season with $54.8m in extensions.  lol...

But this is kinda how Jared did it - he re-formed his roster 2 or 3 times in his tenure here.  And always came back in championship form, so, mucho kudos there. 

Despite that - I don't think delaying this a year is really necessary or helpful.  There's just as many contracts that expire in 20/21 - so if we shift a year, the teams that are getting hit hardest now would see some relief, but another group of teams with more 20/21 expiration's would end up on the sh!t end of the stick.  Tear the band-aid off quick, I say.  I am sorry for what that means for you.  A tough situation becomes tougher. 

[norrya66]

Jared played for the title every year and was one of the best around at finding value out of nowhere.  But you're seeing a bit of the fallout over there with all those extensions and none of them discountable.  Even without the rule change, your Avs have $26.5m in cap space next season with $54.8m in extensions.  lol...

But this is kinda how Jared did it - he re-formed his roster 2 or 3 times in his tenure here.  And always came back in championship form, so, mucho kudos there. 

Despite that - I don't think delaying this a year is really necessary or helpful.  There's just as many contracts that expire in 20/21 - so if we shift a year, the teams that are getting hit hardest now would see some relief, but another group of teams with more 20/21 expiration's would end up on the sh!t end of the stick.  Tear the band-aid off quick, I say.  I am sorry for what that means for you.  A tough situation becomes tougher.

The main issue I see with doing it this year is the money sent from team to team. I know I have a ton of money sent to me. I'm on board with it either way.

I realized I needed to make a run this year and maybe next, and then will have to tear this team down a bit and start over a little. I knew that coming in.

[Rob]

The main issue I see with doing it this year is the money sent from team to team. I know I have a ton of money sent to me. I'm on board with it either way.

I realized I needed to make a run this year and maybe next, and then will have to tear this team down a bit and start over a little. I knew that coming in.

The cash exchanged won't change - don't worry about that.

[Rob]

I realized I needed to make a run this year and maybe next, and then will have to tear this team down a bit and start over a little. I knew that coming in.

If you can find a way to retain your main goalies and deal off the rest, you may be able to re-tool on the fly.  And FA is going to be plump with depth so it's not a big deal that you have to lose some of your own to that pool - you can re-sign them for less. 

You have goalie strength so you're in a good position either way.

[WestCoastExpress]

Solid convo happening here, I like it.

I already told Slack via PM that the only big problem with 3 years (I think someone else pointed out as well), as that is quite a long period of time for a player.

Especially if say a player is 31 going on 32, and needs an extension.
He's still a productive player, but very much expected to start to see a decline in the coming years. And, you'd have to extend the player based on his 29, 30, and 31 year old seasons. Assuming for the most part that the 29 and 30 seasons would be his best, that kind of sucks that you're paying a guy for what he did 3 and 2 years ago.

That said, there are always going to be loopholes and deals to be found, no matter what structure is used.

I mean, for us in here in fantasy, if a player is injured 2 years in a row (ie. Evander Kane), you know his re-sign will be cheaper and that plays a factor in trade value if he's being traded. It certainly did when I traded for him, as his re-sign was probably $1.5m less than it would have been had he been healthy for 1 of the re-sign years.
Generally speaking, if a player is injured 2 years in a row, it might affect his re-sign value in the real NHL too though, short of it being a Steven Stamkos type freak back to back year thing. A team wouldn't fork out a large chunk of money/cap to a guy that's shown to be injury prone, probably giving him a lesser money and shorter term deal to see if he stays healthy and produces like he did before injury. Again, Stamkos is kind of an outlier there I would say as he was a 50-goal guy before injury.

One other suggestion to toss out there for re-signing players... Is not looking at Total FanPts, but looking at FanPts per game.
In the Evander Kane scenario, when healthy, he was still putting up pretty good numbers (3 fanpts/game lets say), but since he was injured and other players who maybe scored 1.8 fanpts/game played 80 games, instead of Kane's 45 games, they would have finished ahead of him in the rankings due to it going on total points. (Don't quote me on those numbers, I'm not a math guy, they're just random estimates).

It would negate the injury factor 2 years in a row for us... Not sure if that's what we're going for or not though.

All in all, there's a lot of different ways to look at it though.

As for timeline... The only thing that is interesting to add on top of higher re-sign values for the most part, is we're adding blocked shots. So come next off-season, we're adding 2 elements that will drastically affect re-sign values, where a guy like Johnny Boychuck goes from irrelevant, to fairly relevant due to his hits and blocks. That's just a random name I threw out there, but there are a few guys like that on D that get you nice hits and blocks (Roman Polak another that comes to mind from previous years).
Might be a good idea to stagger those 2 (fairly large I'd say) changes, if enough people have an issue on it.